KSFO loses advertising because of its content; ABC/Disney goes on warpath

[Spartakus]

Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney. Sometime ago, an obscure blogger name "Spocko" started a
letter-writing campaign to KSFO's advertisers (like Visa, Mastercard,
AT&T), calling their attention to the violent, hateful rhetoric
indulged in by KFSO hosts, such as Melanie Morgan, Lee Rogers, Tom
Brenner and Brian Sussman. Here's a few examples:

"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected
to his testicles and you entertain him with that for awhile and
then
you blow his bleeping head off. "

"Whoever did that [a protestor at a Cindy Sheehan event] should
have been
stomped to death right there. Just stomp their bleeping guts
out."

"We've got a bulls-eye painted on her [Nancy Pelosi's] big
laughing eyes."

There are several audio clips with similar content at:

http://blogintegrityblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2007/01/ksfos-eliminationist-tendencies-caught.html

Here's more background info:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/3/202110/2838

Back to the story at hand, when advertisers started pulling their spots
from KSFO, ABC/Disney had their lawyers write cease and desist letters
and succeeded in getting Spocko's service provider to pull his blog
site. Funny how money (or the loss of it) changes things.

ABC/Disney sells time on KSFO on the notion that the station offers
wholesome, community-minded content that advertisers can feel good
about being associated with. Far from the truth. This isn't a free
speech issue - Morgan, Rogers, et al have the right to say whatever
fool things they want, BUT advertisers have the right to decide whether
or not they want to be associated with such rhetoric.

[Steven]

All that proves is that you are not illiterate and can cut and paste.

It doesn't disconnect you from any possibility of being Spocko yourself
and it doesn't excuse your stupidity.

Maybe Disney will pay attention to you, if that's what you wanted.

[s***@my-deja.com]

Post by Steven
All that proves is that you are not illiterate and can cut and paste.
It doesn't disconnect you from any possibility of being Spocko yourself
and it doesn't excuse your stupidity.
Maybe Disney will pay attention to you, if that's what you wanted.

Well, let's see, substituting one pseudonym for another doesn't make
sense; I don't write anything like Spocko; and Disney is already
"paying attention" to him. Other than that, did you have a point?

Btw, Spocko is back!

http://www.spockosbrain.com/

[Steven]

Post by s***@my-deja.com

Post by Steven
All that proves is that you are not illiterate and can cut and paste.
It doesn't disconnect you from any possibility of being Spocko yourself
and it doesn't excuse your stupidity.
Maybe Disney will pay attention to you, if that's what you wanted.

Well, let's see, substituting one pseudonym for another doesn't make
sense; I don't write anything like Spocko; and Disney is already
"paying attention" to him. Other than that, did you have a point?
Btw, Spocko is back!

I don't care?!? I'm getting my classic Elgin? cruiser from an eBayer
Wednesday, I have an old computer I sold a friend that I'll be tuning
up and I'm finishing a pair of custom speakers for another job (my
first sale and not just a hobby)!

You find me a classic 9 hole rear rack ala Schwinn or Western Flyer or
some parts for it and I'll listen. Fair?

sf.craigslist.org
www.ebay.com

Salut!

[David Kaye]

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney.

KGO's ad count has also been down lately. Both Gene Burns and John
Rothmann have commented that the spots are very light right now. Last
night I listened to Rothmann for awhile. He had two spots during his
hour (excluding news and Metro Traffic). Even for the overnight that's
low.

[JD]

It's the beginning of the month and the beginning of the year. Many ad
contracts haven't been signed. Look for new commercials on a station
near you. ;-)

JD

Post by David Kaye

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney.

KGO's ad count has also been down lately. Both Gene Burns and John
Rothmann have commented that the spots are very light right now. Last
night I listened to Rothmann for awhile. He had two spots during his
hour (excluding news and Metro Traffic). Even for the overnight that's
low.

[l***@democrat.com]

Post by JD
It's the beginning of the month and the beginning of the year. Many ad
contracts haven't been signed. Look for new commercials on a station
near you. ;-)
JD

Post by David Kaye

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney.

KGO's ad count has also been down lately. Both Gene Burns and John
Rothmann have commented that the spots are very light right now. Last
night I listened to Rothmann for awhile. He had two spots during his
hour (excluding news and Metro Traffic). Even for the overnight that's
low.

KQKE ad count is still up there, but the sponsors are so flaky I doubt
they pay much for the spots More get rich quick schemes and a male
"enhancer" that works in 3 to 5 seconds.

BTW, not mentioned yet on ba.broadcast, but all those dumb ass diet
scams like Trim-Spa had to pay fines to the FCC for their misleading
advertising. I recall a few KGO news readers pimped for Trim-Spa. I
don't know if they had a choice in the matter.

I wonder if this is the same Spartakus that phones in the traffic jams?

[JD]

To the surprise of some, we dedicated an hour of primetime talk to this
topic on Thursday Dec 4th. from 7pm-8pm. The question presented: Do you
believe that broadcasters should be held responsible for screening out
advertistements that make questionable and/or obviously bogus claims?
Buyer beware? How far do you take it? I was surprised at the lack of
response, but then again, I don't believe the usual suspects were
listening :-)

JD

Post by l***@democrat.com
BTW, not mentioned yet on ba.broadcast, but all those dumb ass diet
scams like Trim-Spa had to pay fines to the FCC for their misleading
advertising. I recall a few KGO news readers pimped for Trim-Spa. I
don't know if they had a choice in the matter.
I wonder if this is the same Spartakus that phones in the traffic jams?

[J. Michael Scott]

JD wrote:
I was surprised at the lack of

Post by JD
response, but then again, I don't believe the usual suspects were
listening

Damn!! Damn!! Oh well...

Post by JD

Post by l***@democrat.com
I wonder if this is the same Spartakus that phones in the traffic jams?

No, he's actually an old , mis-spelled cart machine!! (heh) and
legendary "revolting slave" (???) Kirk Douglas.

I'm now known as Dick TaPhone 4000!

No?

how 'bout - I'm NOW "Whiny the Elder",
"Joo-Jingo-Jingleheimer-Schmidt"or if you like, "Chief Running-Gag", or
my all-time fave:

that harassing, knife-wileding, KFJC cult leader... stinky, dirty,
doped-up, greasy satanic spic conquistador ...

Jose'
(named after Grampapa Jose Nieves Romero of Santa Maria de Los Angeles,
Jalisco, Mexic - a 4th degree KC, ICF & Sons of Italy member too)

Michael

(after Great-Great Grandpa Michael Loring (Edna's Granddad, just like
my cousin on the FBI wanted poster, Michael Loring Scott...anybody seen
him lately? I doubt it)

Scott

(GranPappy's from Hedrick, IA...Granma Edna was Mamie Dou'd 3rd cousin,
and used to play "back-up piano" ...when the feed was lost/fill music
for Des Moines's Red or Blue network radio station in the 30's...she's
from Douds)

(MMcC ALWAYS "forgets" those Irish in the Scott familia, but "they"
never know what we are, anyway???

"...SO! They're coming to take me away, ha-ha!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho-hee-hee ha-ha,
To the Happy Home, w/ trees 'n' flowers, & chirping birds..."


Yeah...vacation would be a good idea..Hey Steven...can I crash on the
porch & guard the new bicycle??

It's either that, or go up to Lake County & bug "R. Beast" woof!

Ouch! G'NITE!!

[Steven]

J. Michael Scott wrote:

Hello, Jose.

[Steven]

Post by J. Michael Scott
Yeah...vacation would be a good idea..Hey Steven...can I crash on the
porch & guard the new bicycle??

It has been in the single digits to 20 for over a week of nights, even
if it hasn't snowed or rained for a while. The porch would be a bad
place, and my bike goes inside for now.

The Oregon Coast up to Vancouver, BC would not be the best place to
take a hog. I just watched NorthWest Cable News via 24/7 UHF 49 and
Portland and Seattle were hockey rinks with SUVs being the worst
Zambonis EVER. It's snowing in Pendleton and about 19 F so Cabbage and
Emigrant are probably PFUN.

HAY! US Open Figure Skating Championships in Spokane! Let's go watch
skater butts with Chilly and Chuckie! AHEM HA HA

[l***@democrat.com]

Post by JD
To the surprise of some, we dedicated an hour of primetime talk to this
topic on Thursday Dec 4th. from 7pm-8pm. The question presented: Do you
believe that broadcasters should be held responsible for screening out
advertistements that make questionable and/or obviously bogus claims?
Buyer beware? How far do you take it? I was surprised at the lack of
response, but then again, I don't believe the usual suspects were
listening :-)

I wasn't listening, and seriously regret it. Had I caught the show and
got on, I would have picked on that Bruce.com jerk. It seems everyone
is turning 6 figures and never getting out of bed. Just log into the
net and see how much money you made from products that you never had to
touch, let buy or ship. Then there is headon (apply directly to the
forehead). Male enhancement in 3 to 5 seconds? Well, possible, but a
magic cream would not be the answer.

I did catch Friday's show about fans and fanatics. Gene had some great
callers.

Post by JD
JD

Post by l***@democrat.com
BTW, not mentioned yet on ba.broadcast, but all those dumb ass diet
scams like Trim-Spa had to pay fines to the FCC for their misleading
advertising. I recall a few KGO news readers pimped for Trim-Spa. I
don't know if they had a choice in the matter.
I wonder if this is the same Spartakus that phones in the traffic jams?

[Robert]

Post by l***@democrat.com

Post by JD
It's the beginning of the month and the beginning of the year. Many ad
contracts haven't been signed. Look for new commercials on a station
near you. ;-)
JD

Post by David Kaye

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney.

KGO's ad count has also been down lately. Both Gene Burns and John
Rothmann have commented that the spots are very light right now. Last
night I listened to Rothmann for awhile. He had two spots during his
hour (excluding news and Metro Traffic). Even for the overnight that's
low.

KQKE ad count is still up there, but the sponsors are so flaky I doubt
they pay much for the spots More get rich quick schemes and a male
"enhancer" that works in 3 to 5 seconds.
BTW, not mentioned yet on ba.broadcast, but all those dumb ass diet
scams like Trim-Spa had to pay fines to the FCC for their misleading
advertising. I recall a few KGO news readers pimped for Trim-Spa. I
don't know if they had a choice in the matter.

The FTC fined 4 weight loss supplement products $25 million (a slap on the
wrist for them) for giving misleading information but let them continue
selling the junk. Even though the products were proved ineffective, the FDA
would not act. KGO continues to advertise fake supplements, sometimes during
the Dr. Edell show. He says he can do nothing about it. Cable TV is full of
ads for this junk.

Robert

Robert

[JimK]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney.

KGO's ad count has also been down lately. Both Gene Burns and John
Rothmann have commented that the spots are very light right now. Last
night I listened to Rothmann for awhile. He had two spots during his
hour (excluding news and Metro Traffic). Even for the overnight that's
low.

Netflix, MasterCard, Bank of America, and most recently, Visa have
pulled their advertising from KSFO. Federal Express, AT&T and Kaiser
Permanente are weighing their departure as well.

["Buck" @Cowtown.net>]

Bernie ward once cost KGO sixty days of safeway's spots.

Stations.

Advertisers.

Hosts.

They come and they go.

Thanks for playing.

Buck

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney. Sometime ago, an obscure blogger name "Spocko" started a
letter-writing campaign to KSFO's advertisers (like Visa, Mastercard,
AT&T), calling their attention to the violent, hateful rhetoric
indulged in by KFSO hosts, such as Melanie Morgan, Lee Rogers, Tom
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected
to his testicles and you entertain him with that for awhile and
then
you blow his bleeping head off. "
"Whoever did that [a protestor at a Cindy Sheehan event] should
have been
stomped to death right there. Just stomp their bleeping guts
out."
"We've got a bulls-eye painted on her [Nancy Pelosi's] big
laughing eyes."
http://blogintegrityblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2007/01/ksfos-eliminationist-tendencies-caught.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/3/202110/2838
Back to the story at hand, when advertisers started pulling their spots
from KSFO, ABC/Disney had their lawyers write cease and desist letters
and succeeded in getting Spocko's service provider to pull his blog
site. Funny how money (or the loss of it) changes things.
ABC/Disney sells time on KSFO on the notion that the station offers
wholesome, community-minded content that advertisers can feel good
about being associated with. Far from the truth. This isn't a free
speech issue - Morgan, Rogers, et al have the right to say whatever
fool things they want, BUT advertisers have the right to decide whether
or not they want to be associated with such rhetoric.

[Stan de SD]

Post by Spartakus
Here's a fight worth getting into, as it involves a local radio
station, KSFO, its frequently rabid talk show hosts and its owner,
ABC/Disney. Sometime ago, an obscure blogger name "Spocko" started a
letter-writing campaign to KSFO's advertisers (like Visa, Mastercard,
AT&T), calling their attention to the violent, hateful rhetoric
indulged in by KFSO hosts, such as Melanie Morgan, Lee Rogers, Tom
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected
to his testicles and you entertain him with that for awhile and
then
you blow his bleeping head off. "
"Whoever did that [a protestor at a Cindy Sheehan event] should
have been
stomped to death right there. Just stomp their bleeping guts
out."
"We've got a bulls-eye painted on her [Nancy Pelosi's] big
laughing eyes."

Free speech is a bitch when the other side practices it, right?

[Stan de SD]

The one thing we don't know is the scope of those excerpts. A few
seconds-worth of examples would be one thing. Entire programs would be
another.

This is true. I'm assuming, based on the blog link Norm provided, that
these were short excerpts used as evidence to support his contention.

And I don't know anyone with deep pockets who wants to throw money at
someone whose "lofty purpose" is to defame a business and cause it
financial for no good reason.

I can see his point, and in years gone by I might have pursued
something like this myself. The comments made on KSFO (I've heard some
of them but not the ones in question) are certainly inflammatory,

Any more so than those made by their counterparts on the left? How about
those made by rappers who refer to women as "bitches" and "ho's"?

Just as I do when I don't care to listen to some crack-smoking cretin try
his hands at verse in Ebonics, he's welcome to turn the dial if he's
offended... :O|

were they made by a leftist against George W or a Republican member of
Congress, you can bet that this stuff would have been stopped in its
tracks, invoking every possible anti-terrorist law on the books.

Sorry, but Air America wasn't stopped by government intervention. It was
stopped by the fact that people didn't care to listen to it, and advertisers
didn't feel like pissing their money down a hole...

[Spartakus]

Post by Stan de SD

I can see his point, and in years gone by I might have pursued
something like this myself. The comments made on KSFO (I've heard
some of them but not the ones in question) are certainly inflammatory,

Any more so than those made by their counterparts on the left?

Do you have any specific examples? (And no, I don't mean Usenet posts
or comments in blogs - let's have some examples from liberal talk radio
hosts.)

Post by Stan de SD
How about those made by rappers who refer to women as "bitches"
and "ho's"?

Those lyrics get bleeped out when they go out over the radio. But why
should you care if rappers refer to women as bitches and whores?

Post by Stan de SD
Just as I do when I don't care to listen to some crack-smoking cretin try
his hands at verse in Ebonics, he's welcome to turn the dial if he's
offended... :O|

Agreed about turning the dial - but suppose you are buying radio
advertising for your business. Would you want the same guy (or gal)
who just talked about killing a whole bunch of brown people (or killing
liberals, or the Speaker of the House) to read YOUR advertising copy?

[s***@my-deja.com]

Am I to understand that you believe that Spocko's calling out the KSFO
radio hosts for their hate speech is interfering with *Disney's* free
speech?

Don't try to pull that.

I'm not pulling anything; I'm responding to what YOU wrote (and
subsequently deleted). After you went on about how Spocko's campaign
resulted in ABC/Disney losing advertising revenue, you asked "Who is
interfering with whose free speech here?" Remember?

That isn't what he's doing. He's purposely trying to sabotage their
business. I understand there's a standing invitation for him to be
on the air, but he would rather use the dirty-trick route.

What's dirty about contacting advertisers to give them a heads-up
regarding what they are really buying?

Your concern for the wellbeing of Disney employees is as touching as it
is sincere.

Your lack of concern for people or for facts tells me a lot.

Don't try to pull that. Do you really believe that KSFO's declining
advertising revenue is bringing ABC/Disney to its knees, forcing it to
cut pay and benefits for its employees? Either you are indulging in
insincere blather or you are the biggest maroon posting on the ba.*
heirarchy.

Btw, in what context would be some of the cited examples of KSFO's
rhetoric (like "dig Rachel Carson up and kill her all over again") be
acceptable?

Acceptable to whom? Who is the supreme judge of acceptability?

There are several - the FCC comes immediately to mind and there are
others as well.

Are you offended? Are you easily offended? So what?

Let's test *your* "offended" quotient. Here's a comment from a KSFO
host:

"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off. "

Since you deny any standard of what is acceptable discourse, what's to
stop someone from using this comment as a bon mote at the water cooler
where you work? Does that sound OK to you?

How about your family's Thanksgiving dinner? Your church's potluck?
Your mother's funeral?

Do you think you (or anyone else) hold the right to not be
offended by *anything*?
If your neighbor flips you off do you burn his house down?

You're just blathering. If your neighbor talks endlessly about making
you or a friend of yours die violently, do you just shrug it off?
Well, if you're the sort of person you say you are (all concerned about
"tak[ing] the bread off the tables of Disney employees"), of course
you'd do something about it. Right?

These talk show hosts speak about bringing pain and violent death to
all sorts of people they hate or disagree with. I know several people
they talk this way about and I am one such person myself. I take their
words personally. You'd better believe that if there is some leverage
I can use to influence their choice of content, I will use it.

[John Higdon]

Post by s***@my-deja.com
What's dirty about contacting advertisers to give them a heads-up
regarding what they are really buying?

First, advertisers can listen to the unedited, unexpurgated version
anytime they want. What they're getting from Spocko is a slanted,
out-of-context, edited presentation.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Don't try to pull that.

Do you actually have an original idea in your head? Using my words in
your arguments is nice as a one-time device, but it's wearing thin.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Do you really believe that KSFO's declining
advertising revenue is bringing ABC/Disney to its knees, forcing it to
cut pay and benefits for its employees? Either you are indulging in
insincere blather or you are the biggest maroon posting on the ba.*
heirarchy.

Do you think the salespeople get their commissions when the clients
cancel. Obviously, you are not knowledgeable regarding the inner
workings of radio.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
There are several - the FCC comes immediately to mind and there are
others as well.

What FCC regulations have been violated here, pray tell?

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Since you deny any standard of what is acceptable discourse, what's to
stop someone from using this comment as a bon mote at the water cooler
where you work? Does that sound OK to you?

I fail to see the horror.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
How about your family's Thanksgiving dinner? Your church's potluck?
Your mother's funeral?

What has this got to do with radio broadcasting? If you hear something
on the radio you don't like, change the station. Turn it off. Whatever.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
These talk show hosts speak about bringing pain and violent death to
all sorts of people they hate or disagree with. I know several people
they talk this way about and I am one such person myself. I take their
words personally. You'd better believe that if there is some leverage
I can use to influence their choice of content, I will use it.

Then don't listen. No one is forcing you. You, however, do not have the
right to dictate to others what they may or may not hear.

[Steven]

Post by John Higdon
Then don't listen. No one is forcing you. You, however, do not have the
right to dictate to others what they may or may not hear.

Now the the ---- hit the airwaves on KCBS, perhaps Spartakus has
defined the entire thread and argument, and there may be the strong
notion of his being right/

John Daly will be wise to restrain himself for now, and you may need to
back off for the sake of the legal rights of others.

FYI only

[Spartakus]

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
What's dirty about contacting advertisers to give them a heads-up
regarding what they are really buying?

First, advertisers can listen to the unedited, unexpurgated version
anytime they want.

Do they? Or do they accept the ad rep's description of a radio
station's content at face value? Do you think that Bank of America and
Mastercard were told up front that KSFO has a stable of hosts who love
talking about torturing and killing brown people, Muslims, libberuls,
etc?

Post by John Higdon
What they're getting from Spocko is a slanted,
out-of-context, edited presentation.

Edited, eh? You have proof of that?

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Don't try to pull that.

Do you actually have an original idea in your head? Using my words in
your arguments is nice as a one-time device, but it's wearing thin.

Heh. I did that for the irony - I didn't think I would be pushing your
buttons.

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Do you really believe that KSFO's declining advertising revenue is
bringing ABC/Disney to its knees, forcing it to cut pay and benefits
for its employees? Either you are indulging in insincere blather or
you are the biggest maroon posting on the ba.* heirarchy.

Do you think the salespeople get their commissions when the clients
cancel. Obviously, you are not knowledgeable regarding the inner
workings of radio.

Of course they don't get their commissions, and that's a good incentive
to ensure client satisfaction by being scrupulously honest about the
product they're selling. Right?

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
There are several - the FCC comes immediately to mind and there are
others as well.

What FCC regulations have been violated here, pray tell?

You asked for an example of a "supreme judge of acceptability"
regarding broadcast content. I provided one. As for regulations,
that's problematic. A broadcaster can be hit for a six-figure fine for
allowing words like "fuck" on the air, but allowing something like

"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."

seems to be OK, regulation-wise. That doesn't seem right to me. Your
mileage undoubtedly varies.

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Since you deny any standard of what is acceptable discourse, what's to
stop someone from using this comment as a bon mote at the water cooler
where you work? Does that sound OK to you?

I fail to see the horror.

Well, go ahead and let it rip tomorrow at work, and let me know how it
turns out.

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
How about your family's Thanksgiving dinner? Your church's potluck?
Your mother's funeral?

What has this got to do with radio broadcasting? If you hear something
on the radio you don't like, change the station. Turn it off. Whatever.

I asked you about contexts where comments like:

"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."

would be acceptable. You seem to think there are contexts where such
comments are acceptable. In fact, in your previous response, you
denied any standard of acceptability, which implies that all contexts
are acceptable. So I've provided some examples. So, if these contexts
*aren't* acceptable, doesn't that imply that there are standards and
that someone sets them? Please respond - the entire ba.* heirarchy
awaits your words with bated breath.

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
These talk show hosts speak about bringing pain and violent death to
all sorts of people they hate or disagree with. I know several people
they talk this way about and I am one such person myself. I take their
words personally. You'd better believe that if there is some leverage
I can use to influence their choice of content, I will use it.

Then don't listen. No one is forcing you. You, however, do not have the
right to dictate to others what they may or may not hear.

I think it's a safe assumption that if you were to let fly with a
comment like:

"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."

you would be shunned by everyone within hearing range. And that's how
it is with KSFO - they are shunned by most listeners in the Bay Area.
Only mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers enjoy that kind of talk, or even
have a tolerance for it. Now, if a corporation only wants to appeal to
mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers, well, that's the station it should
advertise on. But a corporation who wants the biggest market share
possible, the biggest pool of talent to recruit from, etc, will shun
such a station. And that's the leverage that people have over a radio
station's content. It's called "citizen activism". You have a problem
with that?

[John Higdon]

Post by Spartakus
Edited, eh? You have proof of that?

If it isn't edited, they he is violating their copyright. Which is it?

Post by Spartakus
Heh. I did that for the irony - I didn't think I would be pushing your
buttons.

Irony works once. When you overuse it, it becomes trite.

Post by Spartakus

Post by John Higdon
What FCC regulations have been violated here, pray tell?

You asked for an example of a "supreme judge of acceptability"
regarding broadcast content. I provided one. As for regulations,
that's problematic. A broadcaster can be hit for a six-figure fine for
allowing words like "fuck" on the air, but allowing something like
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
seems to be OK, regulation-wise. That doesn't seem right to me. Your
mileage undoubtedly varies.

In other words, *you* are the final arbiter and judge?

Post by Spartakus
Well, go ahead and let it rip tomorrow at work, and let me know how it
turns out.

They're bored with this discussion at work already.

Post by Spartakus
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
would be acceptable. You seem to think there are contexts where such
comments are acceptable.

Words don't generally push my buttons one way or another. There is
nothing you could say that would hurt me in any significant way.

Post by Spartakus
In fact, in your previous response, you
denied any standard of acceptability, which implies that all contexts
are acceptable.

Suits me.

Post by Spartakus
So I've provided some examples. So, if these contexts
*aren't* acceptable, doesn't that imply that there are standards and
that someone sets them? Please respond - the entire ba.* heirarchy
awaits your words with bated breath.

I think it's a tempest in a teapot. Does that answer your question?

Post by Spartakus
I think it's a safe assumption that if you were to let fly with a
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
you would be shunned by everyone within hearing range. And that's how
it is with KSFO - they are shunned by most listeners in the Bay Area.

That's not what Arbitron says.

Post by Spartakus
Only mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers enjoy that kind of talk, or even
have a tolerance for it. Now, if a corporation only wants to appeal to
mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers, well, that's the station it should
advertise on. But a corporation who wants the biggest market share
possible, the biggest pool of talent to recruit from, etc, will shun
such a station. And that's the leverage that people have over a radio
station's content. It's called "citizen activism". You have a problem
with that?

Oh, please. Radio has always catered to the lowest common denominator.

[s***@my-deja.com]

I see you've conceded my point about how attentive advertisers usually
are to the content of the radio stations they sponsor.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
Edited, eh? You have proof of that?

If it isn't edited, they he is violating their copyright. Which is it?

It's well known that Spocko has excerpts, not complete shows on his web
site, and that is covered by the fair use doctrine of copyright law.
What did you mean by "edited". Are you making up meanings for words
like Humpty Dumpty in "Alice Through The Looking Glass"?

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
Heh. I did that for the irony - I didn't think I would be pushing your
buttons.

Irony works once. When you overuse it, it becomes trite.

Well, we can add irony to the growing list of topics you don't
understand. Here's a hint - you weren't being ironic.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus

Post by John Higdon
What FCC regulations have been violated here, pray tell?

You asked for an example of a "supreme judge of acceptability"
regarding broadcast content. I provided one. As for regulations,
that's problematic. A broadcaster can be hit for a six-figure fine for
allowing words like "fuck" on the air, but allowing something like
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
seems to be OK, regulation-wise. That doesn't seem right to me. Your
mileage undoubtedly varies.

In other words, *you* are the final arbiter and judge?

Didn't say or imply that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
Well, go ahead and let it rip tomorrow at work, and let me know how it
turns out.

They're bored with this discussion at work already.

Riiiight.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
would be acceptable. You seem to think there are contexts where such
comments are acceptable.

Words don't generally push my buttons one way or another. There is
nothing you could say that would hurt me in any significant way.

Two points:

1. Words affect people in different ways.
a. Some people (including some of KSFO's advertisers) are deeply
hurt or offended by things said by KSFO host.
b. Some people can be incited to violence by hearing words of
violence over and over again.

2. Words are tools, like fire. They can heat your home and cook your
food, or they can burn your house down and kill you.

Your indifference to the power of language hardly makes YOU "the final
arbiter and judge" of acceptability.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
In fact, in your previous response, you denied any standard of
acceptability, which implies that all contexts are acceptable.

Suits me.

You're either a liar or an idiot. You may be both, now that I think of
it.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
So I've provided some examples. So, if these contexts
*aren't* acceptable, doesn't that imply that there are standards and
that someone sets them? Please respond - the entire ba.* heirarchy
awaits your words with bated breath.

I think it's a tempest in a teapot. Does that answer your question?

No. Try again.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
I think it's a safe assumption that if you were to let fly with a
"Now you start with the Sear's Diehard the battery cables
connected to his testicles and you entertain him with that
for awhile and then you blow his bleeping head off."
you would be shunned by everyone within hearing range. And that's how
it is with KSFO - they are shunned by most listeners in the Bay Area.

That's not what Arbitron says.

Hand-waving.

Post by John Higdon

Post by Spartakus
Only mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers enjoy that kind of talk, or even
have a tolerance for it. Now, if a corporation only wants to appeal to
mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers, well, that's the station it should
advertise on. But a corporation who wants the biggest market share
possible, the biggest pool of talent to recruit from, etc, will shun
such a station. And that's the leverage that people have over a radio
station's content. It's called "citizen activism". You have a problem
with that?

Oh, please. Radio has always catered to the lowest common denominator.

Not always. And catering to the lowest common denominator is a mistake
if you want attract listeners with disposable incomes.

[John Higdon]

Post by s***@my-deja.com
b. Some people can be incited to violence by hearing words of
violence over and over again.

Ah...the very argument governments themselves use when they want to
silence "dangerous" speech.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
2. Words are tools, like fire. They can heat your home and cook your
food, or they can burn your house down and kill you.

Nonsense. Speech, per se, does not harm people. Ever.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Your indifference to the power of language hardly makes YOU "the final
arbiter and judge" of acceptability.

Exactly the opposite. I don't judge the acceptability of speech. You
apparently do.

Post by s***@my-deja.com
You're either a liar or an idiot. You may be both, now that I think of
it.

Because I consider all speech acceptable? That sounds more like
"tolerance"...something in very short supply in this region.

Post by s***@my-deja.com

Post by John Higdon
I think it's a tempest in a teapot. Does that answer your question?

No. Try again.

One shot to a customer. Your question will remain unanswered.

Post by s***@my-deja.com

Post by John Higdon
That's not what Arbitron says.

Hand-waving.

Huh?

Post by s***@my-deja.com
Not always. And catering to the lowest common denominator is a mistake
if you want attract listeners with disposable incomes.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were knowledgeable concerning broadcasting.

My mistake.

[Steven]

Spartakus wrote:

If you want truth, ask the people in the dark.

If they don't kill you or disgrace you, you'll know.

Unless they were IMPOSTERS...

Then it was USENET, cat!


"...YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

Best line from a work of fiction

[Stan de SD]

Post by Spartakus

Post by John Higdon

Post by s***@my-deja.com
What's dirty about contacting advertisers to give them a heads-up
regarding what they are really buying?

First, advertisers can listen to the unedited, unexpurgated version
anytime they want.

Do they? Or do they accept the ad rep's description of a radio
station's content at face value? Do you think that Bank of America and
Mastercard were told up front that KSFO has a stable of hosts who love
talking about torturing and killing brown people, Muslims, libberuls,
etc?

I listen to Sussman in the morning when he's on, and in the evening, and
don't recall him saying ANYTHING about killing "brown people". Do you have
any sources or cites to back up your claim, or is this more of your lying
bullshit?

As far as Muslims, I might give a shit if they didn't have a reputation of
threatening Jews, Israelis, and Americans. The Allah-worshippers have made
their own bed on this one, so they can lie in it for all I care. :O|