Discussion:
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
(too old to reply)
Paul Simon
2008-12-26 16:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force

Posted by Digby, Hullabaloo at 11:11 AM on December 25, 2008.

But Tasers weren't included in the study.

A bunch of readers have sent this story to me today and it fits in
quite well with another than that several forwarded to me yesterday.
First, we have a vast number of ER docs saying that based upon their
observations of injuries, police often use excessive force:

In a survey of a random sample of U.S. emergency physicians, virtually
all said they believed that law enforcement officers use excessive
force to arrest and detain suspects.
The sample included 315 respondents. While 99.8 percent believed
excessive force is used, almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that
they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated
had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.

Nearly two thirds (65.3 percent) estimated that they had treated two
or more cases of suspected excessive use of force per year among their
patients, according to a report of the survey published in the January
2009 issue of the Emergency Medicine Journal.

Dr. Jared Strote of the University of Washington, Seattle, and a
multicenter team also found that emergency physicians at public
teaching hospitals were roughly four times more likely to report
managing cases of suspected use of excessive force than those at
university or community teaching emergency departments.

Blunt trauma inflicted by fists or feet was the most common type of
injury cited in cases of suspected use of excessive force, followed by
"overly tight" handcuffs.

Most emergency physicians (71.2 percent) admitted that they did not
report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement
officers.

A large majority (96.5 percent) reported that they had no departmental
policies on reporting their suspicions or they did not know of a
policy to guide their actions, and 93.7 percent said they had received
no education or training in dealing with these situations.

However, most emergency physicians (69.5 percent) felt that it was
within their scope of practice to refer cases of suspected use of
excessive force for investigation and almost half (47.9 percent) felt
that emergency physicians should be legally required to report cases
of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

Imagine if tasering were added into the definition of excessive force,
as it should be. (It doesn't usually leave marks, so these doctors
don't see it unless the person is one of the growing number of those
who are injured thudding to the ground, suffer heart attacks or ...
die.)

And speaking of excessive force:

Two Newburgh Heights police officers and a dispatcher were indicted
Tuesday on felonious assault charges for their roles in using a Taser
on a drunken driving suspect.
Joseph Szelenyi, 31, of Newburgh Heights; Bobby Hoover, 32, of
Brunswick; and dispatcher Christopher Minek, 25, of Strongsville are
accused of hitting Kim Bankhead several times with a Taser during her
arrest and processing following a traffic stop Nov. 25, 2007.

Bankhead was driving away from the Crankshaft Bar with her ex-husband
about 9 p.m. that evening when Hoover pulled her over. He said she
smelled of alcohol and arrested her for operating a vehicle while
intoxicated.

Szelenyidrove up to assist. Szelenyi used a Taser twice while
attempting tohandcuff her and place her in the police car, said Ryan
Miday,spokesman for Cuyahoga County prosecutor's office.

When they arrived at the station where Minek was working, they
handcuffed Bankhead to a bench. Hoover then hit her twice with a Taser
and Minek once, Miday said.

At her Feb. 25 Municipal Court hearing, Bankhead pleaded no contest to
operating a vehicle while intoxicated. Charges of disorderly conduct,
driving in a prohibited area, failure to yield and resisting arrest
were dismissed. Bankhead filed a civil suit in October against the
city and three men. She is asking for $2 million.

The interesting thing about this is that they charged these officers
with felonious assault with a taser. Cases like this could lead to
some interesting legal reevaluation of weapon. After all, we've been
told over and over again that there's no harm in tasering --- it's
just a little zap that doesn't do anyone any harm. But if you can be
indicted for using a taser as a weapon then someone, at least, sees
that there is inherent harm in shooting people with electricity (it's
hard to believe that isn't simple common sense) and that police should
not be allowed to use them impunity any more than they can use a billy
cub or a gun with impunity.

In most cases so far, the police are found to be not guilty of a
crime, but at some point it's going to become obvious that these are
dangerous weapons and that standards have to be strictly enforced.
This zap first and and ask questions later mentality (and the
impending use of a new generation of weapons to quell dissent and
break up lawful gatherings) is bound to bring these legal question to
the fore. Let's hope we haven't gone so far down the torture rabbit
hole that it's too late.

$2 million is way too much money but $25,000 paid out of pocket by the
police officer who did the crime is not.
wulfenite
2008-12-26 18:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Curt
2008-12-26 21:43:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.

That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.

Curt
wulfenite
2008-12-26 22:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's a fact.
Post by Curt
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
Right on the money.
Spread Eagle®
2008-12-26 23:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
wulfenite
2008-12-27 00:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
Curt's moving to center....
Curt
2008-12-27 06:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
Curt's moving to center....
Never!

Curt
wulfenite
2008-12-27 06:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
Curt's moving to center....
Never!
Curt
Oh you kid!
SMITH29
2008-12-28 19:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
Curt's moving to center....
Never!
Curt
Oh you kid!
xxxx
He's wising up.

29
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 19:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
Curt's moving to center....
Never!
Curt
Oh you kid!
xxxx
He's wising up.
29
LOl.
Curt
2008-12-27 06:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.

Curt
SMITH29
2008-12-28 19:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!

29
Paul Simon
2008-12-28 20:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
SMITH29
2008-12-28 21:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
xxxx
Actually, you don't think.
And, you don't comprehend either.

Like, yer name isn't CURT.
So, the question wasn't directed to you.
Please try to sharpen up here.

29 :-)
Paul Simon
2008-12-28 22:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
xxxx
Actually, you don't think.
And, you don't comprehend either.
Like, yer name isn't CURT.
So, the question wasn't directed to you.
Please try to sharpen up here.
29 :-)
Er? Yer? This is usenet for general discussion of group items between
any users. If you don't like it, go to personal email.
SMITH29
2008-12-28 23:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
xxxx
Actually, you don't think.
And, you don't comprehend either.
Like, yer name isn't CURT.
So, the question wasn't directed to you.
Please try to sharpen up here.
29 :-)
Er? Yer? This is usenet for general discussion of group items between
any users. If you don't like it, go to personal email.
xxxx
Kiss My Ass you inconsiderate poop!!

29
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-29 00:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
xxxx
Actually, you don't think.
And, you don't comprehend either.
Like, yer name isn't CURT.
So, the question wasn't directed to you.
Please try to sharpen up here.
29 :-)
Er? Yer? This is usenet for general discussion of group items between
any users. If you don't like it, go to personal email.
xxxx
Kiss My Ass you inconsiderate poop!!
29
Fight! Fight! ...
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 23:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
That's what I thought, too much TV.
xxxx
Actually, you don't think.
And, you don't comprehend either.
Like, yer name isn't CURT.
So, the question wasn't directed to you.
Please try to sharpen up here.
29 :-)
Er? Yer?
Shaddup.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-29 00:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by Spread Eagle®
Post by Curt
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Golly gee gosh, how come you're being so reasonable all of a sudden?
I happen to know a lot about A)arrests and B)emergency rooms.
Curt
xxxx
You watch CSI Miami? good show!!!
29
SUCKS! The original isn't too bad.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-27 03:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.

That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.

Curt

=============================================================

Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
wulfenite
2008-12-27 05:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
Paul Simon
2008-12-27 17:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
Some have and when caught, they need to leave. We're not interested
in them beating up citizens. They can always join the US Terrorists
at Blackwater, and get out of here.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-27 19:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
Some have and when caught, they need to leave. We're not interested
in them beating up citizens. They can always join the US Terrorists
at Blackwater, and get out of here.
Bugger off Landru, your repetitive partisan spite is boring and
unproductive.
Paul Simon
2008-12-27 21:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
Some have and when caught, they need to leave. We're not interested
in them beating up citizens. They can always join the US Terrorists
at Blackwater, and get out of here.
Bugger off Landru, your repetitive partisan spite is boring and
unproductive.
Give Bill another blow job and he'll owe you 2.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-27 22:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
Some have and when caught, they need to leave. We're not interested
in them beating up citizens. They can always join the US Terrorists
at Blackwater, and get out of here.
Bugger off Landru, your repetitive partisan spite is boring and
unproductive.
Give Bill another blow job
Oh, you're a faggot - figures...
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-28 00:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but AFAIK
that's all.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 01:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 02:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
What say you Seth, are most MPs skullcrackers?
Phxbrd
2008-12-28 03:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
What say you Seth, are most MPs skullcrackers?
Not in my experience. There are far better uses for them. It was only a
joke about good stick men peeling scalps down over perp's eyes to blind
them.

I have a feel for one thing, though: Anything but complete compliance with
an arresting officer is wrong and can kill you. Resistance can be suicidal.
The cop WILL prevail. It's his job.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 05:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phxbrd
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
What say you Seth, are most MPs skullcrackers?
Not in my experience.
There we go then, and thus the Borgnine "From Here to Eternity"
character fades away.
Post by Phxbrd
There are far better uses for them. It was only a
joke about good stick men peeling scalps down over perp's eyes to blind
them.
Lol.
Post by Phxbrd
I have a feel for one thing, though: Anything but complete compliance with
an arresting officer is wrong and can kill you. Resistance can be suicidal.
The cop WILL prevail. It's his job.
I'm going to take that as a mixed confirmation, and I agree, 100%.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-28 02:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
Hal's comments were well thought and apply to the APs as well as civilians.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 05:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Arne Saknussen
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by wulfenite
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
But those guys have always been skullcrakers, no?
I only know what I saw when I worked ER. There were some Stories, but
AFAIK that's all.
Little Seth in Az, was an MP, iirc, we should ask him.
Hal's comments were well thought and apply to the APs as well as civilians.
Ok.
Curt
2008-12-27 06:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
Couldn't say -- I've only ever been on the civilian side of it all.
Everyone that ever rode in my ambulance that the cops had, um,
subdued.. had totally had it coming. One guy assaulted my partner the
second the cops closed the doors behind him. (Pretty good trick,
seeing as they had him cuffed to the gurney.) My partner kicked open
the door and a cop wandered by and hit him with a Mag Lite. That shut
him up. I didn't think it was excessive at all..

Curt
wulfenite
2008-12-27 06:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
=============================================================
Dunno. I worked ER and saw what our APs did. A lot was excessive.
Couldn't say -- I've only ever been on the civilian side of it all.
Everyone that ever rode in my ambulance that the cops had, um,
subdued.. had totally had it coming. One guy assaulted my partner the
second the cops closed the doors behind him. (Pretty good trick,
seeing as they had him cuffed to the gurney.) My partner kicked open
the door and a cop wandered by and hit him with a Mag Lite. That shut
him up. I didn't think it was excessive at all..
Curt
I like it.

Reality.
lein
2008-12-27 06:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
You mean like a black guy daring to drive through a white
neigborhood? How dare he do that.
Curt
2008-12-27 16:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by lein
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
You mean like a black guy daring to drive through a white
neigborhood?  How dare he do that.
Do you have a story you're itching to tell?

Curt
hal lillywhite
2008-12-28 01:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
In addition, the medical personnel see a very narrow segment of people
arrested. If somebody doesn't resist arrest or get injured in the
commission of his crime the docs and EMT's never see him. The ones
they see in general resisted or did something stupid in their crime
and got hurt. They don't see the guy who calmly went with the cops,
got booked, then either was released or put in a cell without
resisting.

Clearly there are a few cops who go overboard. However a survey of
medical people is not a valid way to determine what percentage do so.
SMITH29
2008-12-28 19:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.

29
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 19:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
29
Larger caliber = lower costs...I LIKE it!
Paul Simon
2008-12-28 19:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
29
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
Where do you live? If you want to pay the millions of dollars in
fines when your out of control police use their weapons in an
inappropropriate manner, I guess only the dead can complain to your
deaf ears.

Perhaps you watch too much TV.
SMITH29
2008-12-28 20:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
29
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
xxxx
Learn to READ!!!
Post by Paul Simon
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r
Where do you live?
xxxx
In 2 cities, why do you ask?

If you want to pay the millions of dollars in
Post by Paul Simon
fines when your out of control police use their weapons in an
inappropropriate manner, I guess only the dead can complain to your
deaf ears.
xxxx
I look at this way, If you resist the law is obligated to jail your ass.
Any cop who can't do that should look into a different line of work.

If you get beat to a pulp it means that you don't know how to fight or
are just plain stupid.

I watched a local police officer arrest a crack whore ( skinny little
thing ) in front of our home.
When he told her he had to cuff her she went ballistic and tried to get
away. It was all the officer could do to get her on the ground belly
down and threatened to zap her. he lit the zapper a few times not
electrocuting her and she gave in. He cuffed her and put her in the car
and came over to me in the yard and asked me if I thought he was too
rough and I said I thought he did a fine job and was glad police were
doing something about the drug hooker scene and he asked for my name and
if I would testify if she takes him to court and I told him I would
gladly testify.
We are lucky to have good police officers and I contend that if someone
is arrested and resists it's the officers duty to subdue the resistance
and I don't give a damn how it's done so long as they don't just shoot
them instead.
I remember Rodney King getting the shit beat out of himself and it's a
good lesson for people to watch what happens and I think the officers
were justified in taking him to jail or the e/r.
Post by Paul Simon
Perhaps you watch too much TV.
xxxx
Perhaps you resisted arrest. Did they knock your punkin head against
a power pole?
You lost in court, didn't 'ya. :-)

29
Paul Simon
2008-12-28 22:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
29
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
xxxx
Learn to READ!!!
Try being more specific.
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r
Where do you live?
xxxx
In 2 cities, why do you ask?
To avoid where you live since everyone that goes into the ER is on
drugs.
J>
Post by SMITH29
If you want to pay the millions of dollars in
Post by Paul Simon
fines when your out of control police use their weapons in an
inappropropriate manner, I guess only the dead can complain to your
deaf ears.
xxxx
I look at this way, If you resist the law is obligated to jail your ass.
Any cop who can't do that should look into a different line of work.
I have a problem with police beating people up, not arresting them.
Post by SMITH29
If you get beat to a pulp it means that you don't know how to fight or
are just plain stupid.
Police have arrested and beaten people who were innocent. I've never
been arrested. Sounds like you have. How many times and for what?
Post by SMITH29
I watched a local police officer arrest a crack whore ( skinny little
thing ) in front of our home.
When he told her he had to cuff her she went ballistic and tried to get
away. It was all the officer could do to get her on the ground belly
down and threatened to zap her. he lit the zapper a few times not
electrocuting her and she gave in. He cuffed her and put her in the car
and came over to me in the yard and asked me if I thought he was too
rough and I said I thought he did a fine job and was glad police were
doing something about the drug hooker scene and he asked for my name and
if I would testify if she takes him to court and I told him I would
gladly testify.
We are lucky to have good police officers and I contend that if someone
is arrested and resists it's the officers duty to subdue the resistance
and I don't give a damn how it's done so long as they don't just shoot
them instead.
I remember Rodney King getting the shit beat out of himself and it's a
good lesson for people to watch what happens and I think the officers
were justified in taking him to jail or the e/r.
So you live around Crack users and you wonder why I ask what city you
live in? You sound like a typical pot-kettle equation.
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Perhaps you watch too much TV.
xxxx
Perhaps you resisted arrest. Did they knock your punkin head against
a power pole?
You lost in court, didn't 'ya. :-)
29
Never been there but it sounds like you have lots of experience.
Rodney King was a good lesson for who? He ended up surviving the
ordeal, suing for a lot of money and his event caused a riot. You
think this is a good example?
SMITH29
2008-12-28 23:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
xxxx
Learn to READ!!!
Try being more specific.
xxxx
Sorry about that.
Exactly what part of the word " Some " don't you understand?

It helps to read each word and then compose meaning by sentence structure.


29
Curt
2008-12-30 14:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Never been there but it sounds like you have lots of experience.
Rodney King was a good lesson for who?  He ended up surviving the
ordeal, suing for a lot of money and his event caused a riot.  You
think this is a good example?  
For the Rodney Kings of the world, it's a great example. Getting beat
was the best thing that could have happened to him. He got rich off
it.

Curt
hal lillywhite
2008-12-28 20:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
...
Post by Paul Simon
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
What part of "some" do you not understand?
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 23:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by hal lillywhite
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
...
Post by Paul Simon
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
What part of "some" do you not understand?
This moron's just an insult troll, he has no intention of honestly
debating anything.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-28 23:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
29
So you say that everyone that comes into an ER is strung out on drugs?
Where do you live? If you want to pay the millions of dollars in
fines when your out of control police use their weapons in an
inappropropriate manner, I guess only the dead can complain to your
deaf ears.
Perhaps you watch too much TV.
Perhaps you haven't watched enough.
Curt
2008-12-30 14:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
Oh, I dunno. If I was looking to cut expenses, the first place I'd
look wouldn't be the caliber of guns the cops are carrying. The cops
can pretty much carry what they want to, anyways. If they prefer the
9mm, there's probably a reason for it and you, not being a cop,
probably wouldn't understand what it is.

Curt
SMITH29
2008-12-31 04:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by SMITH29
Post by Curt
Post by wulfenite
Post by Paul Simon
Most ER Personnel Say Cops Use Excessive Force
They wouldn't be slightly BIASED and also not there to determine that,
would they?
Anyone that watches a guy get arrested always thinks the cops used too
much force. Unless they know what the guy did -- then they wish he'd
got beat more.
That's what's going on with the docs -- they necessarily think of
themselves on the patients' side, which colors their assessment.
Curt
xxxx
Some of the ASS HOLES that come into the e/r have to be held on a gurney
strapped down or they would destroy the e/r in their drugged rage.
Some times the felon is shot full of holes, 9mm usually which is too bad
because that's a poor round to stop a human and they survive the
multiple wounds. e/r sees the wounds but don't know how they got there
and they seldom learn the event in it's entirety.
If law enforcement would go to the 45acp or the .44 special it would
save government untold medical expenses as any one shot with those
rounds most likely won't have the blood to make it to the e/r.
It's something for government to look at in it's desires to cut expenses.
Oh, I dunno. If I was looking to cut expenses, the first place I'd
look wouldn't be the caliber of guns the cops are carrying. The cops
can pretty much carry what they want to, anyways. If they prefer the
9mm, there's probably a reason for it and you, not being a cop,
probably wouldn't understand what it is.
Curt
xxxx

:-)

29

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