Discussion:
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
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Paul Simon
2008-12-23 15:19:45 UTC
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The 10 Greediest People of 2008

By Sam Pizzigati, Too Much: A Commentary on Excess and Inequality.
Posted December 23, 2008.

For obvious reasons, we probably couldn't have picked a better year
than 2008 to "honor" our most avaricious.

This time of year always seems to bring a never-ending barrage of "top
ten" lists. The year's top ten movies, the top ten books, the top ten
news stories, and on and on. Here at Too Much we've decided to join in
on the action -- with our very own list of America's top ten
greediest.

We probably couldn't have picked a better year than 2008 to so "honor"
our most avaricious. This year's stunning economic meltdown has fixed
the attention of our entire nation -- and world -- on the grasping
antics of those who yearn for ever more than they could rationally
ever need.

But this year also presents enormous challenges for anyone bold enough
to rank the greedy. With so much greed out there, how could we
possibly limit our list to a mere ten?

The latest greed explosion to hit the headlines -- the $50 billion
Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme -- illustrates just how difficult a task
ranking the greedy can be.

To whom in this scandal should we award the most greed points? Bernie
Madoff himself, the 70-year-old who scammed his wealthy friends and
charities to keep up his credentials as a Wall Street investing
"genius" -- and maintain a $6 million pad in Manhattan, a waterfront
mansion in Palm Beach, and a weekend getaway on Long Island?

Or should those greed points go instead to the ever-so-sophisticated
hedge fund "middlemen" like Walter Noel, who built a five-manse
fortune by steering clients to Madoff and charging them tens of
millions in "due diligence" fees for the steering.

Or should the greed points go to Madoff's investors themselves, the
swells who pay $250,000 a year for the privilege of belonging to a
swanky country club?

So many choices! How about James Cayne, the Bear Stearns CEO who rode
toxic securities into billionairedom? Or Angelo Mozilo, who took the
same ride at Countrywide Financial, spreading suffering to subprimed
families all along the way?

In the end, we came to realize, the size of the fortune alone doesn't
determine greed. It's the thought that counts. In that holiday spirit,
we hope you find our top ten greedy list of some interest -- and
greed-busting inspiration.

10: Dwight Schar

Any list of 2009's greediest has to start, of course, with the
power-suits who pumped up -- and profited ever so lavishly from -- the
now-burst housing bubble. In November, Wall Street Journal researchers
scoured the records of firms that build and finance housing and found
15 top executives who have pocketed, "in cash compensation and
proceeds from stock sales," at least $100 million over the past five
years.

Among the fortunate 15: Dwight Schar, the chair of homebuilding giant
NVR Inc. The 66-year-old Schar has cleared $625 million since 2002. In
2004, he spent a good chunk of that buying an ocean-facing mansion in
Florida's Palm Beach for $70 million, the highest price up to then
ever paid for a U.S. residential property. The seven-bedroom home came
with a walk-in humidor for cigars.

Schar's legal residence, a gated estate just north of Washington,
D.C., sits on 10 acres overlooking the Potomac. NVR stock has dropped
over 60 percent since its housing bubble peak, but neither of Schar's
two main residences figures to foreclose anytime soon.

9: Patrick Soon-Shiong

Why does health care in the United States cost so much? Maybe somebody
should ask Patrick Soon-Shiong, the Los Angeles drug developer who
this September saw his personal fortune -- $3 billion last year --
take a giant first step toward more than doubling.

Soon-Shiong came into 2008 as the chief executive of APP
Pharmaceuticals. He stepped down as CEO in the spring, but the former
surgeon still held 83 percent of the company's shares. In July, he
agreed to sell APP to a German firm. The sale finalized two months
later for an initial $3.7 billion cash payment.

What made APP so attractive? The company is minting money. In 2007,
notes the Los Angeles Business Journal, APP scored $253 million in
adjusted earnings on just $647 million of sales. The firm started this
year off on an equally profitable tear when a contamination scare in
China left APP the only U.S. source of a widely used blood-thinner.
That drug quickly doubled in price.

8: Richard Baker

This hasn't been a great year for the hedge fund industry. The funds
-- largely unregulated investment vehicles open only to deep-pocket
investors -- are suffering their worst year ever, down 19 percent
through November. But the industry has certainly been sweet this year
to at least one lucky fellow, former Congressman Richard Baker from
Louisiana.

Back in February, Baker gave up his House seat -- and his $169,300
House salary -- to become the president and CEO of the Managed Funds
Association, the hedge fund industry's trade association.

What led the 60-year-old Baker, a lawmaker since the age of 23, to
give up his life of public service? Maybe the private gain. As the
hedge fund trade group chief, the New Orleans Times-Picayune reported
earlier this year, Baker would be taking home a $1 million annual
salary and benefits package.

What made Baker so attractive to America's hedge fund billionaires? As
the chair of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Capital
Markets, the Center for Responsible Politics notes, Baker had been
overseeing the very industry he would, as the hedge fund top gun, be
representing.

7: James Mulva

Back last spring, with motorists turning purple with rage every time
they pulled in for a fill-up, one Big Oil CEO tried to assure
Americans he shared their pain. Declared ConocoPhillips chief exec
Mulva: "High oil prices have not been our friend" -- because, as he
explained later to reporters, higher per-barrel prices for crude have
resource-rich countries demanding more control over their own oil.

On the other hand, the run-up in crude oil prices over recent years
hasn't exactly left Big Oil broken-hearted. The industry's profits,
the Consumer Federation of America noted this fall, have soared over
600 percent since 2002.

Few have enjoyed more rewards for that success than the 62-year-old
Mulva. He reaped a $50.5 million personal payoff in 2007, according to
federal Securities and Exchange Commission figures. He'll be
collecting, when he retires, at least a $2.6 million annual pension.

6: Ralph Roberts

On January 1, 2008, the Comcast cable TV empire put into effect the
ultimate in executive incentive pay plans: a new deal that guaranteed
the company's founder and executive committee chair, Ralph Roberts,
$1.85 million in basic annual salary for five years after he dies,
with the after-death payout going to whoever Roberts names as his
beneficiary.

In 2007, Roberts, now 88, actually pocketed $24.7 million in total
compensation. His son, current Comcast CEO Brian Roberts, collected
$20.8 million.

Some shareholders, in early 2008, took a bit of umbrage to all this
largesse. Some even began demanding Brian's resignation. In February,
under fire, the Roberts clan backed down. They agreed to ax Ralph's
death benefit and drop his annual salary to $1 a year. But Comcast
will continue to pay Ralph's various benefits, including his life
insurance. In 2006, the premiums ran $10.5 million.

Meanwhile, in November, news reports revealed that federal and state
cable TV regulators fear that Comcast, amid the consumer confusion
over the transition to all-digital over-the-air broadcasts, is pushing
low-income cable TV subscribers into more expensive monthly cable
packages.

5: Steve Jobs

In 2008, once again, the most notable executive in America's $1-a-year
CEO club remained Steve Jobs, the chief exec at Apple Computer. Jobs
has been collecting a mere $1 in annual salary ever since 1997. He
has, to be sure, been collecting a few other rewards as well. He
entered 2008 with about 5.5 million shares of Apple stock and a net
worth not too far south of $6 billion.

This past March, to gain some input into any future rewards that might
come their CEO's way, Apple shareholders passed a resolution that
gives them an advisory "Say on Pay" vote on executive compensation.
Joked Jobs in response: "I hope 'Say on Pay' will help me with my $1 a
year salary."

Apple corporate directors aren't waiting for any shareholder help. In
the company's 2008 proxy statement, they noted that they're already
"considering additional compensation arrangements" for Jobs, given the
"critical" importance of his "continued leadership."

Jobs himself told shareholders at this year's Apple annual meeting
that he "feels confident" that any number of the company's top execs
"could take his place." Even so, he's probably eager to see what sort
of "additional compensation" Apple's imaginative board might have in
mind.

In 1999, the board gave Jobs a $90 million Gulfstream V jet -- and
agreed to pay Jobs for the cost of operating it. In 2007, that cost
came to $776,000.

4: Robert Stevens

Peace on earth and good will toward everybody. But not too soon. That
may be the motto this holiday season for Lockheed Martin, the world's
biggest military contractor. Under CEO Robert Stevens, the company's
profit margins have nearly doubled, thanks in no small part to a 72
percent hike in U.S. defense outlays, after inflation, since the year
2000.

And the future looks equally bright, even with the war in Iraq winding
down. Lockheed Martin, the 57-year-old Stevens noted last month, sees
nothing but "continuous expansion" in its military hardware sales
overseas. These sales can deliver sky-high returns, industry analysts
point out, because U.S. taxpayers have already footed the bill for the
hardware's R&D.

Still, Stevens isn't putting all his eggs in one basket. Lockheed
Martin, he said last week, remains totally "unconstrained" by the
credit crisis and is now investigating making corporate acquisitions
in other fields -- like health care.

The CEO's personal financial health remains quite robust. Stevens
pulled in $26 million last year. The most highly decorated general in
the U.S. armed services would have to work over 130 years to make that
much.

3: Larry Ellison

No state may be suffering from the bursting of the housing bubble more
than California -- and no Californian may be benefiting from that
bursting more than billionaire Larry Ellison, the Oracle business
software chief exec who currently occupies the three-spot on the
latest Forbes list of America's 400 richest.

Ellison spent nine years and $200 million building a lavish Northern
California residential estate -- in the flamboyant style of a 16th
century Japanese emperor. In 2005, San Mateo County officials assessed
the 23-acre property at $166.3 million. Ellison balked. A more
accurate appraisal, his lawyers claimed, would run about $100 million
less.

Early this spring, the San Mateo assessment appeals board came down on
the side of Ellison's lawyers. That decision handed Ellison a $3
million tax refund.

Local public schools are now bearing about half the burden that refund
has generated. In future years, Ellison's tax discount will cost
Portola Valley schools an annual $250,000 or so, the cost of hiring
and supplying three teachers.

Ellison, as Oracle's top executive, takes home about that much every
hour. This August, just before school started, Oracle pay filings
revealed that Ellison collected $84.6 million in fiscal 2008 for his
CEO labors. He also cleared another $544 million cashing in on a stash
of his Oracle stock options.

2: John Thain

In high-finance circles, they called John Thain "Mr. Fix-It." In 2004,
the New York Stock Exchange hired Thain, a rising star at Goldman
Sachs, to clean up the mess after NYSE CEO Dick Grasso departed with a
scandalous $140 million retirement package. Then, in October 2007,
Merrill Lynch asked Thain to pick up the pieces after Merrill's board
gave the heave-ho to CEO Stanley O'Neal, who left with $160 million.

Merrill paid fairly dearly to gain Thain's services. Mr. Fix-It came
on board with a $15 million signing bonus and a bundle of lush
incentives that "would be considered excessive for any industry
anywhere," observed CEO pay expert Graef Crystal, "except on that tiny
slice of Manhattan called Wall Street."

With subprime-spooked financial giants starting to melt down all
around him, Thain went to work wheeling and dealing -- and assuring
bystanders that all would be well. In July, he told investors he "felt
comfortable with Merrill's capital levels." In August, Thain labeled
his firm "well-positioned for the coming years."

Well, maybe not that well-positioned. In September, as Reuters later
reported, Merrill would come within moments of "total extinction" --
only to be rescued, an hour before Lehman Brothers declared
bankruptcy, when Bank of America agreed to swallow Merrill whole.

Merrill Lynch, Thain apparently believed, had been fixed, and, early
this December, he let it be known that he expected up to $10 million
in new bonus for his efforts -- despite Merrill's $12 billion in 2008
losses and a pending layoff of as much as a fifth of the firm's
workforce. On top of all that, Merrill's new sugardaddy, Bank of
America, was taking $25 billion in taxpayer bailout dollars.

Thain's bonus request quickly became a public relations disaster. By
mid-December, Merrill and Thain, under increasing pressure, would
unrequest the bonus millions. The good news for Mr. Fix-It? He still
may get a $5.2 million "change-of-control payment" for selling Merrill
-- and he still has a job.

Unlike average families who lost everything when Merrill's subprime
mortgage securities went sour, Thain still has a house, too. A nice
one, a 14-bedroom palace north of Manhattan complete with tennis
courts, swimming pools, and a fish-filled private lake.

1: Richard Gilman

The CEO of a small factory on Chicago's North Side, by Fortune 500
standards, rates as distinctly small-time. But this particular CEO,
Richard Gilman, helped make headlines -- and history -- in 2008. He
fully deserves this year's premier place in America's top ten
greediest.

Gilman started running Republic Windows and Doors, a modest,
four-decade-old plant, in 2006. Layoffs soon followed, and,
eventually, only about 240 workers remained from a unionized labor
force once over 500 strong.

Those workers, earlier this fall, realized something even more ominous
was coming at them. Equipment at the Chicago plant had started
vanishing. What the workers didn't know: Republic's "deciders" had set
up a new company and bought a nonunion window and door plant in Iowa.

Two days into December, Republic gave workers the bad news. The plant
would shut down three days later. The workers would lose their earned
vacation time and their health insurance -- and not see any of the
severance legally due them.

Just another typical assault on workers with a precarious foothold in
the middle class. Or so things seemed. But the workers then did
something extraordinary. Reviving memories of the Great Depression-era
"sit-down" strikes, they occupied the plant -- and captured America's
imagination.

The sit-down forced Gilman and his money pot, the Bank of America, to
the bargaining table where a settlement soon took shape. But Gilman
suddenly threw a monkey-wrench into the works -- and gained a slot for
himself in this year's top ten greediest.

Gilman demanded that "any new bank loan to help the employees also
cover" the lease of his Mercedes and BMW and eight weeks of his
$225,000 salary.

The workers would have none of that. Gilman would drop his demand. The
bank funding would come through. The workers had won. Greed had lost.

That hasn't much over the last three decades. Maybe the greedy have
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
SMITH29
2008-12-23 19:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
Maybe the greedy have
Post by Paul Simon
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
xxxx
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.

29 :-)
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-23 20:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Maybe the greedy have
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Fortunately, You People are a impotent, dying breed.
Your line ends with you.
The good news is that, as one of the last, you get to see the dawn of a new
age - a black man as president.
wulfenite
2008-12-23 20:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Maybe the greedy have
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Fortunately, You People are a impotent, dying breed.
But enough about your family...
SMITH29
2008-12-24 05:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Maybe the greedy have
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Fortunately, You People are a impotent, dying breed.
Your line ends with you.
xxxx
Your hair catch and you are toast in 2 seconds :-)
Post by Sanders Kaufman
The good news is that, as one of the last, you get to see the dawn of a new
age - a black man as president.
xxxx
Your racism is disgustingly old fashioned and of little importance.

29
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 08:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Maybe the greedy have
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Fortunately, You People are a impotent, dying breed.
Your line ends with you.
The good news is that, as one of the last, you get to see the dawn of a
new age - a black man as president.
As Black as the one who reprimanded you?
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-23 20:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
SMITH29
2008-12-24 05:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....

The Zil refused to turn right today!!!
Takes forever turning left only to get to decadent Safeway store.
Had to back in to driveway to get home.
Ivan hammering on it now.
Out in the cold.
Such a devoted member.
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-24 06:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists. Not the sort that you
Wingnuts imagine and dream about.
wulfenite
2008-12-24 06:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-24 15:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power. You might try to garner some, when you
get a chance.
wulfenite
2008-12-24 18:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
You might try to garner some, when you
get a chance.
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-24 20:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.

And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
wulfenite
2008-12-24 20:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
And the pomposity to gas about it.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
I haven't sold any, thanks.
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 03:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
And the pomposity to gas about it.
It was interesting, talking with really nice old folks who had
actually met Lenin and Trotsky back in the early 1920's.
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
I haven't sold any, thanks.
That's ferdamshur!
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
And the pomposity to gas about it.
It was interesting, talking with really nice old folks who had
actually met Lenin and Trotsky back in the early 1920's.
I'd insert chilling, but I get the vibe.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
I haven't sold any, thanks.
That's ferdamshur!
Merry Christmas to you Don, have a prosperous '09 too ;-)
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 05:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
And the pomposity to gas about it.
It was interesting, talking with really nice old folks who had
actually met Lenin and Trotsky back in the early 1920's.
I'd insert chilling, but I get the vibe.
Apparently you wouldn't get the vibe at all. Talking with
well-mannered nice old people can be most educational. It was a
pleasure to spend a couple of hours with them, and a unique experience
that few others have ever had or by now ever will have.

The key is Not be be fearful of ideas. Not even those. Not even
yours. Nor mine nor anyone else's.

Die Gedanken sind frei. Wie kann sie erraten?
Post by wulfenite
Merry Christmas to you Don, have a prosperous '09 too ;-)
The Merry side of Xmas comes from the Giving. I/We were fortunate
this year to be able to do a bunch of that, and we're pleased to have
been able to do so. May you and yours be as fortunate and as merry at
the outcome.

Word came today that several fairly large donations to various
entities in my community that were slowed down in the mails because of
weather got there in today's delivery. A shelter that houses families
subject to abusers are going to have a better holiday thereby.

A local food shelf now has several month's supply of toilet paper and
laundry soap. If they're gona be fed, they need the capacity to be
clean as well.

Modest gift packages were shipped to friends and rellies some weeks
back, and word comes that all but one have been received in a timely
fashion. (Mail between here and Lietuva can be So spotty!)

All that remains for tomorrow is a quiet evening over dinner with good
friends. No travel, no pressure - nothing other than Excellent food,
good conversation and a sharing of the occasion.

As for a prosperous '09, better to wish that on those who got Had by
the idiotic fiscal policies that this nation has followed for the past
8 years. My personal prosperity is long since out of the way of that
sort of nonsense. My late neighbor, friend and investment advisor saw
this Bear Market coming more than two years ago, and advised a
contrarian strategy for the next 4-5 years.

But as for Good Tidings and Hope -- there's now reason for some of
that. The adults will soon be in charge once again. That's the joy
that every New Year brings.

Cung chuc tan xuan!

So -- here's wishing You and yours all the benefits that will bring.
There's no place to go but Up.
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
And the pomposity to gas about it.
It was interesting, talking with really nice old folks who had
actually met Lenin and Trotsky back in the early 1920's.
I'd insert chilling, but I get the vibe.
Apparently you wouldn't get the vibe at all. Talking with
well-mannered nice old people can be most educational. It was a
pleasure to spend a couple of hours with them, and a unique experience
that few others have ever had or by now ever will have.
Oh I don't doubt that.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
The key is Not be be fearful of ideas. Not even those. Not even
yours. Nor mine nor anyone else's.
I spent time with an allied concentration camp liberator, wonderful old
gent, but I still get shivers over what he told me.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Die Gedanken sind frei. Wie kann sie erraten?
Tsk, leave the German to DGS!

I make him a bit less cost conscious than you anyway.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Merry Christmas to you Don, have a prosperous '09 too ;-)
The Merry side of Xmas comes from the Giving. I/We were fortunate
this year to be able to do a bunch of that, and we're pleased to have
been able to do so. May you and yours be as fortunate and as merry at
the outcome.
Why thank you.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Word came today that several fairly large donations to various
entities in my community that were slowed down in the mails because of
weather got there in today's delivery. A shelter that houses families
subject to abusers are going to have a better holiday thereby.
A local food shelf now has several month's supply of toilet paper and
laundry soap. If they're gona be fed, they need the capacity to be
clean as well.
Modest gift packages were shipped to friends and rellies some weeks
back, and word comes that all but one have been received in a timely
fashion. (Mail between here and Lietuva can be So spotty!)
All that remains for tomorrow is a quiet evening over dinner with good
friends. No travel, no pressure - nothing other than Excellent food,
good conversation and a sharing of the occasion.
As for a prosperous '09, better to wish that on those who got Had by
the idiotic fiscal policies that this nation has followed for the past
8 years.
Well to be fair it's 8 times 3 really...
Post by g***@amusenet.com
My personal prosperity is long since out of the way of that
sort of nonsense. My late neighbor, friend and investment advisor saw
this Bear Market coming more than two years ago, and advised a
contrarian strategy for the next 4-5 years.
So he got you out well before the top eh...
Post by g***@amusenet.com
But as for Good Tidings and Hope -- there's now reason for some of
that. The adults will soon be in charge once again. That's the joy
that every New Year brings.
There are no adults, silly....just more kids on the other side of the
sand box!
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Cung chuc tan xuan!
I'll enjoy that and some fresh Guoi Cuon with it.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
So -- here's wishing You and yours all the benefits that will bring.
There's no place to go but Up.
You're wordy but sincere, and may our new President-elect be blessed
with the predictable cyclical snap-back we all so desperately desire.

And yeah, I think your marriage certificate shrine is kinda odd but also
sweet.

Peace.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 23:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!!
wulfenite
2008-12-25 00:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!!
Boy howdy!
SMITH29
2008-12-25 04:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
xxxx
I'm not surprised.
Yer dead center.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
xxxx
.
You won't spell Communist or Communism correctly.
Is that to prevent search engine retrieval?
It can be shunted but the thought is curious to me after you attempt to
downgrade Ivan.
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 05:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
xxxx
I'm not surprised.
It's not exactly a big deal. It's just sort of interesting. The
OR-ian for whom Reed College is named was another one, and the elderly
Cawmnists met him as well.

Was a time when Young Murkens went over to the CCCP to participate in
the great social revolution. Many, perhaps even most of them came
home disillusioned with the personnel involved. These were like that.

But they remained quite dedicated to the overall idea of it withal.

The ones I met lived in Cherry, Minnyusoda -- home of Gus Hall, who
once headed the CPUSA. But by the time I ran across them, the entire
apparatus of the CPUSA was down to pretty much one reading room,
rather like those Xtian Science reading rooms you find every now and
again here and there.

But they were nice old people -- friendly, well-read, willing to talk
and in their 80's when I met them. Fascinating to hear personal
recollections of socializing with Lenin and Trotsky, and hearing them
discuss the schism in the CP that eventually resulted in Trotsky being
killed - in Mexico, if memory serves.

But it's OK -- I also personally met HST, DDE and Adlai Stevenson
during the 1952 presidential campaign too, though I was only 8 yrs old
and didn't have time to talk with them. I once interviewed Spiro
Agnes, and still have an autographed picture (his, not mine) of me
with RMN before he was a crook.

Don't make too much of any of it. I was no more convinced by the
Cawmnists than I was by reading Mein Kampf, while on a family trip
when I was 11 or 12 yrs old either. If there is to be a wide panoply
of political philosophies in the world, best folks learn something
about them, even if only to know exactly Why you oppose them. And I
oppose both Cawmnism and Fascism as diametric opposites.

Your lot, otoh, tends to overuse the Cawmnist term, denoting it mostly
as someone who simply doesn't happen to agree with you for this or
that reason. You are Wrong in that. But simply too ignorant even to
know why -- or to bother to bone up on the proper use of such
descriptive terms.

But before y'all start calling someone a Cawmnist, at the very least
you should read The Cawmnist Manifesto and Das Kapital. Don't be
afraid -- they are just words and thoughts, and they won't hurt you in
the least.

But you might then be able to knowledgeably discuss something of which
you demonstrably know little to nothing.
Post by SMITH29
Yer dead center.
Which is to say neither Right nor Left.
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
xxxx
.
You won't spell Communist or Communism correctly.
I spell it the way many of the self-styled anti-Cawmnists used to say
it, back when I was a kid. As a Boy Scout, I got my Citizenship In
The Nation merit badge from a devoted anti-Cawmnist named Truman Wold,
back in Nordakoda. He was the head of the local John Birch Society,
and was forever just going off on Cawmnist this and Cawmnist that --
and never did make one lick of sense. (But since he was the MB
counselor, I did the assignments he required, wrote the essays,
answered the questions - verbal and in writing -- and got the MB.)

And while briefly in Orange County, CA, ran across the local
Republicans who were almost as unwitting as old Truman Wold was.

Your lot sees Cawmnist boogey-men under the beds and in the closets.
Clue: They don't matter any more, and their only main effect is to
provide y'all something to rant about.
Post by SMITH29
Is that to prevent search engine retrieval?
Oooh! Another conspiracy and all.
Post by SMITH29
It can be shunted but the thought is curious to me after you attempt to
downgrade Ivan.
I don't attempt to do it -- I actually do it. I've said the same
things exactly to Actual Soshlists (there aren't many who use the term
Cawmnist in a reflexive reference any more) as well as Wingnuts.

There isn't any Cawmnism out there any more that's all that much of a
threat, certainly. You Wingnuts read a press release from some small
hole-in-the-wall office in some rundown building, and to you online it
reads just like any other press release and just Must be taken
seriously.
SMITH29
2008-12-25 05:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
xxxx
I'm not surprised.
It's not exactly a big deal. It's just sort of interesting. The
OR-ian for whom Reed College is named was another one, and the elderly
Cawmnists met him as well.
Was a time when Young Murkens went over to the CCCP to participate in
the great social revolution. Many, perhaps even most of them came
home disillusioned with the personnel involved. These were like that.
But they remained quite dedicated to the overall idea of it withal.
The ones I met lived in Cherry, Minnyusoda -- home of Gus Hall, who
once headed the CPUSA. But by the time I ran across them, the entire
apparatus of the CPUSA was down to pretty much one reading room,
rather like those Xtian Science reading rooms you find every now and
again here and there.
But they were nice old people -- friendly, well-read, willing to talk
and in their 80's when I met them. Fascinating to hear personal
recollections of socializing with Lenin and Trotsky, and hearing them
discuss the schism in the CP that eventually resulted in Trotsky being
killed - in Mexico, if memory serves.
But it's OK -- I also personally met HST, DDE and Adlai Stevenson
during the 1952 presidential campaign too, though I was only 8 yrs old
and didn't have time to talk with them. I once interviewed Spiro
Agnes, and still have an autographed picture (his, not mine) of me
with RMN before he was a crook.
Don't make too much of any of it. I was no more convinced by the
Cawmnists than I was by reading Mein Kampf, while on a family trip
when I was 11 or 12 yrs old either. If there is to be a wide panoply
of political philosophies in the world, best folks learn something
about them, even if only to know exactly Why you oppose them. And I
oppose both Cawmnism and Fascism as diametric opposites.
Your lot, otoh, tends to overuse the Cawmnist term, denoting it mostly
as someone who simply doesn't happen to agree with you for this or
that reason. You are Wrong in that. But simply too ignorant even to
know why -- or to bother to bone up on the proper use of such
descriptive terms.
xxxx
That's about the best load of propaganda I have read this week.
You get an " A " for that load.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
But before y'all start calling someone a Cawmnist, at the very least
you should read The Cawmnist Manifesto and Das Kapital. Don't be
afraid -- they are just words and thoughts, and they won't hurt you in
the least.
But you might then be able to knowledgeably discuss something of which
you demonstrably know little to nothing.
Post by SMITH29
Yer dead center.
Which is to say neither Right nor Left.
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
xxxx
.
You won't spell Communist or Communism correctly.
I spell it the way many of the self-styled anti-Cawmnists used to say
it, back when I was a kid. As a Boy Scout, I got my Citizenship In
The Nation merit badge from a devoted anti-Cawmnist named Truman Wold,
back in Nordakoda.
xxxx
Just try spelling it correctly.

He was the head of the local John Birch Society,
Post by g***@amusenet.com
and was forever just going off on Cawmnist this and Cawmnist that --
and never did make one lick of sense. (But since he was the MB
counselor, I did the assignments he required, wrote the essays,
answered the questions - verbal and in writing -- and got the MB.)
And while briefly in Orange County, CA, ran across the local
Republicans who were almost as unwitting as old Truman Wold was.
Your lot sees Cawmnist boogey-men under the beds and in the closets.
Clue: They don't matter any more, and their only main effect is to
provide y'all something to rant about.
Post by SMITH29
Is that to prevent search engine retrieval?
Oooh! Another conspiracy and all.
Post by SMITH29
It can be shunted but the thought is curious to me after you attempt to
downgrade Ivan.
I don't attempt to do it -- I actually do it.
xxxx
I van fixed the car, mostly.....
I refrain from comment.

I've said the same
Post by g***@amusenet.com
things exactly to Actual Soshlists (there aren't many who use the term
Cawmnist in a reflexive reference any more) as well as Wingnuts.
xxxx
You pattern the language and we cross reference.
You get big!!!
Post by g***@amusenet.com
There isn't any Cawmnism out there any more that's all that much of a
threat, certainly. You Wingnuts read a press release from some small
hole-in-the-wall office in some rundown building, and to you online it
reads just like any other press release and just Must be taken
seriously.
xxxx
You must give references.....
Bill Shatzer
2008-12-25 06:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
I'm not surprised.
It's not exactly a big deal. It's just sort of interesting. The
OR-ian for whom Reed College is named was another one, and the elderly
Cawmnists met him as well.
A common misconception but an inaccurate one. Despite Reed College's
reputation for left-leaning politics, the college was named for Oregon
pioneers Simeon Gannett Reed and Amanda Reed - no relation to John Reed,
of "Reds" fame.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Reed_College#1.

Peace and justice,
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 17:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Shatzer
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
I'm not surprised.
It's not exactly a big deal. It's just sort of interesting. The
OR-ian for whom Reed College is named was another one, and the elderly
Cawmnists met him as well.
A common misconception but an inaccurate one. Despite Reed College's
reputation for left-leaning politics, the college was named for Oregon
pioneers Simeon Gannett Reed and Amanda Reed - no relation to John Reed,
of "Reds" fame.
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Reed_College#1.
OK -- I will stand corrected, in that case. I'd always heard it
otherwise -- from Reedies yet!
Bill Shatzer
2008-12-25 21:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by Bill Shatzer
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
I'm not surprised.
It's not exactly a big deal. It's just sort of interesting. The
OR-ian for whom Reed College is named was another one, and the elderly
Cawmnists met him as well.
A common misconception but an inaccurate one. Despite Reed College's
reputation for left-leaning politics, the college was named for Oregon
pioneers Simeon Gannett Reed and Amanda Reed - no relation to John Reed,
of "Reds" fame.
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Reed_College#1.
OK -- I will stand corrected, in that case. I'd always heard it
otherwise -- from Reedies yet!
Not an uncommon affectation - wishing to be vicariously affiliated with
the famous - or the notorious, depending on your take on John Reed.

But consider, Reed College was founded (under that name) in 1908 - while
John Reed was still an undergraduate student at Harvard.

Peace and justice,
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
xxxx
I'm not surprised.
Yer dead center.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
xxxx
.
You won't spell Communist or Communism correctly.
Is that to prevent search engine retrieval?
It can be shunted but the thought is curious to me after you attempt to
downgrade Ivan.
Whoa....very interesting premise.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-25 06:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
Or in your case, not.
I have the interesting distinction of being two degrees separated from
both Lenin and Trotsky.
xxxx
I'm not surprised.
Yer dead center.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
And discussing Cawmnism with an Actual Cawmnist does have a certain
level of interest. The key is not to buy off on someone else's
ideology. I didn't buy off on theirs nor do I buy off on yours.
xxxx
.
You won't spell Communist or Communism correctly.
Is that to prevent search engine retrieval?
It can be shunted but the thought is curious to me after you attempt to
downgrade Ivan.
Jeez, thanks a bunch ...
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 23:29:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
I have - Knowledge is Power.
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!!
Scratch
2008-12-24 19:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in
the overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists.
Learned from them too it seems....
OH yeaaaaaa....
--
Atheism is a myth!
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 08:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
NQH -- I've known some Genuine
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!!
SMITH29
2008-12-25 03:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also NO DANGER of it happening, save in the
overhet imaginations of Wingnuts.
Post by SMITH29
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
The guns are not that important, neither is Cawmnism.
XXXX
Yes Comrade....
The Zil refused to turn right today!!!
Takes forever turning left only to get to decadent Safeway store.
Had to back in to driveway to get home.
Ivan hammering on it now.
Out in the cold.
Such a devoted member.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
NQH -- I've known some Genuine Cawmnists. Not the sort that you
Wingnuts imagine and dream about.
xxxx
Ivan not dedicated member?
To save trouble I will keep him from your slanderous propaganda.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 08:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
That is correct. There is also
NO WONDER YOU KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS!!
Curt
2008-12-24 03:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
Maybe the greedy have
Post by Paul Simon
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
xxxx
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
29 :-)
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.

Curt
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-24 03:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.
There's another ballot that counts more than the vote - the dollar ballot.
Everytime the Republicans borrow another billion from the Chinese, the
takeover becomes that much closer.

Currently, and for many years, we've been TRYING to take them off of our
most-favored trading lists.
But since they hold so much of our debt, we simply can NOT do it.
Based on that, I'd say those commies have ALREADY taken over quite a bit.


THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline than
that.
wulfenite
2008-12-24 04:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Curt
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.
There's another ballot that counts more than the vote -
But it's not yours, eraserhead.
Scratch
2008-12-24 05:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
.
Post by Curt
Post by SMITH29
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.
There's another ballot that counts more than the vote - the dollar
ballot. Everytime the Republicans borrow another billion from the
Chinese, the takeover becomes that much closer.
Currently, and for many years, we've been TRYING to take them off of
our most-favored trading lists.
But since they hold so much of our debt, we simply can NOT do it.
Based on that, I'd say those commies have ALREADY taken over quite a bit.
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?

Hahahahahaha
--
Atheism is a myth!
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-24 07:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
Meanwhile, Obama has shown up early for work.
The swearing in is just a ceremony.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 08:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
Meanwhile, Obama has shown up early for work.
The swearing in is just a ceremony.
Do Janitors get paid over Christmas vacation?
wulfenite
2008-12-24 17:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?

You moron.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Meanwhile, Obama has shown up early for work.
With a splashy "Office of the President-Elect" podium and lotsa media buzz.

But begged off giving any meaningful input on the TARP fund allocation,
despite being asked to.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
The swearing in is just a ceremony.
Always was, always will be.

The media coronates early.
Paul Simon
2008-12-24 20:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Meanwhile, Obama has shown up early for work.
With a splashy "Office of the President-Elect" podium and lotsa media buzz.
But begged off giving any meaningful input on the TARP fund allocation,
despite being asked to.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
The swearing in is just a ceremony.
Always was, always will be.
The media coronates early.
Scratch
2008-12-24 20:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
There is a HUGE difference between paying for the defense of the country
and paying union benefits that only effect some of the people of this
nation. Hows the Jobs Banks thinggy coming.
--
Atheism is a myth!
wulfenite
2008-12-24 21:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
Not an unfair measure at all...
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Meanwhile, Obama has shown up early for work.
With a splashy "Office of the President-Elect" podium and lotsa media buzz.
But begged off giving any meaningful input on the TARP fund allocation,
despite being asked to.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
The swearing in is just a ceremony.
Always was, always will be.
The media coronates early.
SMITH29
2008-12-25 04:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
xxxx
I see the bail job for what it is and it has no comparable relation to
Military spending.

The UAW has brought the Big Three to an era of distrust of product and
product quality.
It has so much control Gettlefinger speaks for the American Auto
Industry and it's on the nightly news and the news channels and to me is
enough to make me not want to buy the product just to get rid of the union.
People wonder why a lefty loosie righty tighty gets a $73.00/hr package
and they get something they think is not worth the price when they drive
the product.
If the union can't cut it's package in half for GM like it did for
American Axle then it's time to withhold any loans of any kind and let
GM and the UAW work it out.

A comment on Military spending:
I oppose using mercenary troops and believe the government should
restart the mandatory draft.

29
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
xxxx
I see the bail job for what it is and it has no comparable relation to
Military spending.
Well his analogy on size and $ was interesting.
Post by SMITH29
The UAW has brought the Big Three to an era of distrust of product and
product quality.
It has so much control Gettlefinger speaks for the American Auto
Industry and it's on the nightly news and the news channels and to me is
enough to make me not want to buy the product just to get rid of the union.
People wonder why a lefty loosie righty tighty gets a $73.00/hr package
and they get something they think is not worth the price when they drive
the product.
If the union can't cut it's package in half for GM like it did for
American Axle then it's time to withhold any loans of any kind and let
GM and the UAW work it out.
It may be, but will Dems make that happen???
Post by SMITH29
I oppose using mercenary troops and believe the government should
restart the mandatory draft.
29
Yet almost all top brass feel they have a far more motivated set of
personnel now.

Don't worry, Pres-elect Obama promised a new civilian defense force
"every bit as large and well financed as our military"....

That oughta be real interesting...
SMITH29
2008-12-27 23:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by wulfenite
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
xxxx
I see the bail job for what it is and it has no comparable relation to
Military spending.
Well his analogy on size and $ was interesting.
Post by SMITH29
The UAW has brought the Big Three to an era of distrust of product and
product quality.
It has so much control Gettlefinger speaks for the American Auto
Industry and it's on the nightly news and the news channels and to me
is enough to make me not want to buy the product just to get rid of
the union.
People wonder why a lefty loosie righty tighty gets a $73.00/hr
package and they get something they think is not worth the price when
they drive the product.
If the union can't cut it's package in half for GM like it did for
American Axle then it's time to withhold any loans of any kind and let
GM and the UAW work it out.
It may be, but will Dems make that happen???
Post by SMITH29
I oppose using mercenary troops and believe the government should
restart the mandatory draft.
29
Yet almost all top brass feel they have a far more motivated set of
personnel now.
xxxx
Of course they do and for good reason but that does noes not constitute
good reason to hire mercenaries to fight for the USA.
If the draft started again it would mean more work for existing staff in
training the recruits so of course personell are opposed to the draft.
Post by wulfenite
Don't worry, Pres-elect Obama promised a new civilian defense force
"every bit as large and well financed as our military"....
That oughta be real interesting...
xxxx
You KNOW damn well thats a load!
That's like old man Bush and his " No more new taxes ".....

29 :-)
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-27 23:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by wulfenite
Post by SMITH29
Post by Paul Simon
Post by wulfenite
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
Post by Sanders Kaufman
THANK GOD we have a Democrat in office with better fiscal discipline
than that.
Are you that much of a nut job drone? He hasn't even been sworn in yet
and you give him credit for 4 years he has not started?
Bush has already given up trying to do anything.
That why he pushed money through for the auto industry?
You moron.
Anyone against the bailout might lend themselves some credibility if
they opposed the run-away military budget in this country which is
OVER 700 Billion dollars every year. So what is 700 billion? Not much
if you look at it that way.
xxxx
I see the bail job for what it is and it has no comparable relation
to Military spending.
Well his analogy on size and $ was interesting.
Post by SMITH29
The UAW has brought the Big Three to an era of distrust of product
and product quality.
It has so much control Gettlefinger speaks for the American Auto
Industry and it's on the nightly news and the news channels and to me
is enough to make me not want to buy the product just to get rid of
the union.
People wonder why a lefty loosie righty tighty gets a $73.00/hr
package and they get something they think is not worth the price when
they drive the product.
If the union can't cut it's package in half for GM like it did for
American Axle then it's time to withhold any loans of any kind and
let GM and the UAW work it out.
It may be, but will Dems make that happen???
Post by SMITH29
I oppose using mercenary troops and believe the government should
restart the mandatory draft.
29
Yet almost all top brass feel they have a far more motivated set of
personnel now.
xxxx
Of course they do and for good reason but that does noes not constitute
good reason to hire mercenaries to fight for the USA.
Well there are other reasons...
Post by SMITH29
If the draft started again it would mean more work for existing staff in
training the recruits so of course personell are opposed to the draft.
That's not the reason I've heard from the top brass.
Post by SMITH29
Post by wulfenite
Don't worry, Pres-elect Obama promised a new civilian defense force
"every bit as large and well financed as our military"....
That oughta be real interesting...
xxxx
You KNOW damn well thats a load!
Well they have been saying that as well as mandatory community service
for grade school and up.
Post by SMITH29
That's like old man Bush and his " No more new taxes ".....
29 :-)
Suppose they aren't kidding, then what?
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-24 08:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt
Post by Paul Simon
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
Maybe the greedy have
Post by Paul Simon
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era. America's
generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
xxxx
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
29 :-)
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.
Curt
Not with Dondi in charge!
Scratch
2008-12-24 19:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
.
Post by Curt
Post by Paul Simon
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
Maybe the greedy have
Post by Paul Simon
finally gone too far. We may have reached the end of an era.
America's generation-long Great Greed Grab may soon be no more.
xxxx
Their is NO WAY Communism will take over here in America.
You have to get the guns first and that won't happen either.
29 :-)
Well, at least you have to get the votes. Which is, also, not likely.
Curt
Not with Dondi in charge!
yep! he is a looser!
--
Atheism is a myth!
hal lillywhite
2008-12-25 01:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-25 03:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.


=====================================================
And Madoff. Was Madoff on the list?
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-25 03:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
The Democrat only tried to rip folks off for a few hundred grand.
Those Republicans were ripping folks off in the neighborhood of hundreds of
millions.
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 05:02:44 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:23 -0600, "Sanders Kaufman"
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
To whom are you both referring here?

If you mean the gubernator of IL, it's Blagojevitch.

Sheesh! It's all over the noozepapers, ferpete'ssakes!
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-25 05:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:23 -0600, "Sanders Kaufman"
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
To whom are you both referring here?
In answer, I refer you to the subject line.
Sheesh - it's right there on the top of the message, fer crissakes.
You don't even have to go to some newspaper somewhere.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
If you mean the gubernator of IL, it's Blagojevitch.
Sheesh! It's all over the noozepapers, ferpete'ssakes!
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-25 06:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:23 -0600, "Sanders Kaufman"
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
To whom are you both referring here?
If you mean the gubernator of IL, it's Blagojevitch.
Sheesh! It's all over the noozepapers, ferpete'ssakes!
I did not make the post.
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-25 06:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:23 -0600, "Sanders Kaufman"
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
To whom are you both referring here?
If you mean the gubernator of IL, it's Blagojevitch.
Sheesh! It's all over the noozepapers, ferpete'ssakes!
And, BTW, you've got no call to criticize anyone's spelling of anything.
g***@amusenet.com
2008-12-25 17:31:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:49:08 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by g***@amusenet.com
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:23 -0600, "Sanders Kaufman"
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
To whom are you both referring here?
If you mean the gubernator of IL, it's Blagojevitch.
Sheesh! It's all over the noozepapers, ferpete'ssakes!
And, BTW, you've got no call to criticize anyone's spelling of anything.
Oh shur I do! Especially with proper names.
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:10:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
The Democrat only tried to rip folks off for a few hundred grand.
Those Republicans were ripping folks off in the neighborhood of hundreds of
millions.
Ah so it's sheer value as opposed to sleazey intentions...

Let me see you a school board seat then...
Lobby Dosser
2008-12-25 06:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by hal lillywhite
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
Compared with those others, Bologovitch is downright charitable.
The Democrat only tried to rip folks off for a few hundred grand.
Those Republicans were ripping folks off in the neighborhood of hundreds
of millions.
Not my post ...
wulfenite
2008-12-25 05:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by hal lillywhite
Post by Paul Simon
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
No such list can be very meaningful now unless it includes Rod
Blogovitch.
=====================================================
And Madoff. Was Madoff on the list?
He should be up for murder after what the Frenchman did.
Scratch
2008-12-30 00:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Subject: The 10 Greediest People of 2008
ba.politics,ca.politics,or.politics,wash.politics,us.politics
The 10 Greediest People of 2008
By Sam Pizzigati, Too Much: A Commentary on Excess and Inequality.
Posted December 23, 2008.
For obvious reasons, we probably couldn't have picked a better year
than 2008 to "honor" our most avaricious.
This time of year always seems to bring a never-ending barrage of "top
ten" lists. The year's top ten movies, the top ten books, the top ten
news stories, and on and on. Here at Too Much we've decided to join in
on the action -- with our very own list of America's top ten
greediest.
You sound like a good little socialist puppet. No one should make a
profit except the government right? Tell us about fannie mae and freddie
Mac agin and how that all turned out. Unless of course it happens to be
the soros type right?
--
Atheism is a myth!
Sanders Kaufman
2008-12-30 01:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scratch
You sound like a good little socialist puppet. No one should make a
profit except the government right? Tell us about fannie mae and freddie
Mac agin and how that all turned out. Unless of course it happens to be
the soros type right?
Posting a troll message AND changing the follow up headers so you don't see
the follow-ups.
What a pathetic little troll you are.
Arne Saknussen
2008-12-30 01:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Scratch
You sound like a good little socialist puppet. No one should make a
profit except the government right? Tell us about fannie mae and freddie
Mac agin and how that all turned out. Unless of course it happens to be
the soros type right?
Posting a troll message AND changing the follow up headers so you don't see
the follow-ups.
What a pathetic little troll you are.
Shaddup, eraserhead.

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