To sum up, students' math skills fall short

[Stan de SD]

If our schools fail to teach basic math, how did I learn it? I was
lucky in two ways: where and to whom I was born. I was born in St.
Petersburg, Russia, and went to school there until fourth grade. My
parents put my education above all else.

Funny how the emphasis in education in some cultures, and the lack of it in
others, makes a difference in outcome.

Perhaps my two accidents of birth can boost our fledgling mathematics
education. No, I do not mean that we should send students to Russia.

That might not be a bad idea - if we could actually afford it. Maybe some of
our spoiled children need to see what the rest of the world has to deal
with, to realize how good they have it here.

But for all the things that country did poorly, it excelled at
mathematics education.

One of the ironic things about the Soviet system, is that for all the
left-wing crap that it inspired (and that its lackeys and apologists adopted
in the west), they never had any illusions about the real purpose of higher
education. If the State was to pay your education, they expected something
useful out of you in return. Basket-weaving courses and feel-good "victim
studies" curricula didn't cut it... :Oo

[Stan de SD]

Parents are failing to instill the idea that education is valuable.

Because many of the parents know better. Education might have been
worth something, but was not worth the effort that must be put into
it.

(3) The pay sucks. Anyone who is any good at mathematics (or
biology, chemistry, physics, computers, etc.) can get far better
salaries
in private industry. Part of this problem is (IMO) due to improved
gender
equality in the workplace. Once it was hard for women to find jobs, so
the
most highly qualified ones took jobs as teachers. Now they have
alternatives.
Until public schools in the U.S. are willing to pay for good teachers,
they
won't get any.

Until Americans are willing to pay 50% higher school taxes (or
whatever amount is required to be competitive), the pay will not be
forthcoming.

Spoken like a true mindless liberal, Bobbo - as if the solution to all
problems is to pay more in taxes. Fact of the matter is that there is NO
correllation between academic achievement and per-student-spending in the US
when broken down by state level. Many of the schools that spend the most get
the worst results. Real educational reform will start when we (a) eliminate
the stranglehold of the teacher's unions on the K-12 educational system, (b)
make kids more accountable for their performance and behavior, and (c) make
the PARENTS more accountable for the KID's behavior as well. Spending more
money on the current system is pissing money down a hole.

In the era of the perpetual tax cut, and the ever higher targets for
student achievement (such that kids who were considered successful 20
years ago are considered failures today),

Sources? Cites? Didn't think so, Bobbo... :O(

[Jafo]

Post by Stan de SD
Funny how the emphasis in education in some cultures, and
the lack of it in others, makes a difference in outcome.

"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition
of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded
- here and there, now and then - are the work of an
extremely small minority, frequently despised, often
condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-
thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept
from creating, or (as sometimes happens)is driven out
of a society, the people then slip back into abject
poverty."

This is known as "bad luck."
- R.A. Heinlein

--
Jafo

[The World Wide Wade]

Post by Jafo

Post by Stan de SD
Funny how the emphasis in education in some cultures, and
the lack of it in others, makes a difference in outcome.

"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition
of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded
- here and there, now and then - are the work of an
extremely small minority, frequently despised, often
condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-
thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept
from creating, or (as sometimes happens)is driven out
of a society, the people then slip back into abject
poverty."

And an example of this would be ...?

Post by Jafo
This is known as "bad luck."
- R.A. Heinlein
--
Jafo

[Herman Rubin]

Post by The World Wide Wade

Post by Jafo

Post by Stan de SD
Funny how the emphasis in education in some cultures, and
the lack of it in others, makes a difference in outcome.

"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition
of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded
- here and there, now and then - are the work of an
extremely small minority, frequently despised, often
condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-
thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept
from creating, or (as sometimes happens)is driven out
of a society, the people then slip back into abject
poverty."

And an example of this would be ...?

There are many such. Europe in the middle ages, with
Christianity being the obstructive force. The Muslim
countries, after the 9th century or so. Most of the
black African countries today. North Korea.

Italy in the Renaissance was relatively free. Britain
had enough individual freedom that the cadet members of
the aristocracy could advance the sciences and technology.
The rest of Europe lagged behind, because of the alliance
between church and state. Napoleon effectively broke that.

Post by The World Wide Wade

Post by Jafo
This is known as "bad luck."
- R.A. Heinlein
--
Jafo

[The World Wide Wade]

Post by Herman Rubin

Post by The World Wide Wade

Post by Jafo

Post by Stan de SD
Funny how the emphasis in education in some cultures, and
the lack of it in others, makes a difference in outcome.

"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition
of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded
- here and there, now and then - are the work of an
extremely small minority, frequently despised, often
condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-
thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept
from creating, or (as sometimes happens)is driven out
of a society, the people then slip back into abject
poverty."

And an example of this would be ...?

There are many such. Europe in the middle ages, with
Christianity being the obstructive force. The Muslim
countries, after the 9th century or so. Most of the
black African countries today. North Korea.

You are giving examples of societies dominated by forces
obstructive to free inquiry. But that hardly addresses the
question, which was: What is an example of advances due to an
extremely small minority, despised and condemned and opposed by
right-thinking people, that delivered man from poverty, which was
then kept from creating and/or driven from society, whereupon the
people slipped back into abject poverty?

[Serial Killfiler]

Post by Herman Rubin

Post by The World Wide Wade
And an example of this would be ...?

There are many such. Europe in the middle ages, with
Christianity being the obstructive force. The Muslim
countries, after the 9th century or so.

You are wrong about the Muslim countries. Contrary to your prejudiced
view, there is a strong interest in education, and a marked respect
for educated people. Being the first in your family to graduate from
a university is an honor and accords a prestige upon your parents
throughout your life.

I have experienced this personally, as I have traveled in
predominantly Muslim countries for over 20 years. My family being
scattered over three continents, and my late husband's scattered in
four different countries, I have seen first-hand what people's
feelings and attitudes are.

The main problems in most Muslim nations in this domain are
underfunding of education, the complete destruction of educational
institutions, and policies (formal or informal) that bar ethnic
minorities or social underclasses from educational opportunity or
employment. It is not "lack of desire to be educated". There are
lots of Muslim people to risk their necks just to teach or learn, or
who sacrifice everything they have to give their kids opportunities to
study.

TSK
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