MioMyo
2009-04-23 05:59:16 UTC
Cheney laid out the gauntlet of open & honest government and bamby's
response is he runs to move-on and Soros for what to do next.
It's simple bamby either Cheney is lying or he isn't. You can prove him a
liar by releasing the rest if those memos. After all you already released
the most national security stuff anyway, so the rest can only go to prove
Cheney right and you wrong or visa versa.....
Otherwise this is change everyone can only die for,,,,,,,,,,
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/21/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4959587.shtml
Former Vice President Dick Cheney told Fox News on Monday that the Obama
administration should release CIA memos that, he says, will show "the
success" of the CIA's use of so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques"
during the Bush administration.
Last week, the administration released previously top-secret CIA memos
authorizing the use of tactics such as stripping prisoners nude, depriving
them of sleep, slapping them, placing them in a cramped box filled with
insects, and employing the process of simulated drowning known as
waterboarding. Waterboarding is now considered by the government to be
torture.
Cheney said he found the decision to release those memos - but not others
that he says show the success of the use of the tactics - "a little bit
disturbing." He said he has read classified memos "that lay out what we
learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for
the country," arguing that they should be made public so the country can
have an "honest debate."
President Obama, who has banned the use of many of the methods outlined in
the memos, initially indicated that his administration would not prosecute
those involved in authorizing and applying the tactics. But facing pressure
in the wake of the release of the memos, he indicated today that he is open
to prosecution of those "who formulated those legal decisions," though not
those who carried out the operations.
Cheney, who has been a persistent and vocal critic of the young Obama
administration, offers a fundamentally different worldview than Mr. Obama.
The former vice president's call for the release of more memos is
essentially a push for evidence that the ends justify the means, no matter
how bad the means may look.
The president, by contrast, argues that America must hold to an ethical
standard higher than its enemies, even if it makes the job harder; the ends,
to him, will never justify the tactics outlined in the CIA memos.
"Sometimes it seems as if.we're operating with one hand tied behind our
back" in striving to operate ethically, he told CIA employees yesterday. And
yet, he suggested, it's worth it.
"What makes the United States special and what makes you special is
precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals
even when it's hard, not just when it's easy; even when we are afraid and
under threat, not just when it's expedient to do so," said the president.
That's a view that Cheney appears to see as naïve; he has suggested that Mr.
Obama's policies have made America less safe. Following such ethical
considerations, he seems to think, means putting American lives at risk.
All this is not to say that these "enhanced" techniques are necessarily
effective; many argue that the sort of treatment outlined in the CIA memos
more often than not yields false confessions or bad information. One cannot
necessarily operate on the premise that the further you go, the safer you
can make the country - even if Jack Bauer's heroics (on Fox's "24") might
suggest otherwise. Still, if you believe that such techniques can work - as
Cheney, and many in the intelligence world, clearly do - then the debate
becomes about whether or not you are willing to limit your potential
effectiveness by reducing the tools at your disposal.
Mr. Obama's decision to release the memos in the first place has been
criticized by former Attorney General Michael Mukasey, former CIA director
Michael Hayden, independent Sen. Joe Lieberman and others; Mukasey and
Hayden wrote in the Wall Street Journal that "its effect will be to invite
the kind of institutional timidity and fear of recrimination that weakened
intelligence gathering in the past, and that we came sorely to regret on
Sept. 11, 2001."
The president rejects such arguments; to him, the American identity is tied
to the fact that "we are willing to go back and correct [our] mistakes and
keep our eye on those ideals and values that have been passed on generation
to generation," as he said today. (The president has also pointed out that
the techniques outlined in the memos had previously been disclosed, and
thus, he argues, the release of the memos does not aide terrorists.)
In the broadest sense, the dispute centers on questions of idealism and
pragmatism - and to what degree the two can be merged. The president
believes America can be kept safe while operating at higher ethical
standards than its enemies; the former vice president believes that it is
sometimes necessary to use tactics that many find objectionable in order to
protect the American way of life.
response is he runs to move-on and Soros for what to do next.
It's simple bamby either Cheney is lying or he isn't. You can prove him a
liar by releasing the rest if those memos. After all you already released
the most national security stuff anyway, so the rest can only go to prove
Cheney right and you wrong or visa versa.....
Otherwise this is change everyone can only die for,,,,,,,,,,
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/21/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4959587.shtml
Former Vice President Dick Cheney told Fox News on Monday that the Obama
administration should release CIA memos that, he says, will show "the
success" of the CIA's use of so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques"
during the Bush administration.
Last week, the administration released previously top-secret CIA memos
authorizing the use of tactics such as stripping prisoners nude, depriving
them of sleep, slapping them, placing them in a cramped box filled with
insects, and employing the process of simulated drowning known as
waterboarding. Waterboarding is now considered by the government to be
torture.
Cheney said he found the decision to release those memos - but not others
that he says show the success of the use of the tactics - "a little bit
disturbing." He said he has read classified memos "that lay out what we
learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for
the country," arguing that they should be made public so the country can
have an "honest debate."
President Obama, who has banned the use of many of the methods outlined in
the memos, initially indicated that his administration would not prosecute
those involved in authorizing and applying the tactics. But facing pressure
in the wake of the release of the memos, he indicated today that he is open
to prosecution of those "who formulated those legal decisions," though not
those who carried out the operations.
Cheney, who has been a persistent and vocal critic of the young Obama
administration, offers a fundamentally different worldview than Mr. Obama.
The former vice president's call for the release of more memos is
essentially a push for evidence that the ends justify the means, no matter
how bad the means may look.
The president, by contrast, argues that America must hold to an ethical
standard higher than its enemies, even if it makes the job harder; the ends,
to him, will never justify the tactics outlined in the CIA memos.
"Sometimes it seems as if.we're operating with one hand tied behind our
back" in striving to operate ethically, he told CIA employees yesterday. And
yet, he suggested, it's worth it.
"What makes the United States special and what makes you special is
precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals
even when it's hard, not just when it's easy; even when we are afraid and
under threat, not just when it's expedient to do so," said the president.
That's a view that Cheney appears to see as naïve; he has suggested that Mr.
Obama's policies have made America less safe. Following such ethical
considerations, he seems to think, means putting American lives at risk.
All this is not to say that these "enhanced" techniques are necessarily
effective; many argue that the sort of treatment outlined in the CIA memos
more often than not yields false confessions or bad information. One cannot
necessarily operate on the premise that the further you go, the safer you
can make the country - even if Jack Bauer's heroics (on Fox's "24") might
suggest otherwise. Still, if you believe that such techniques can work - as
Cheney, and many in the intelligence world, clearly do - then the debate
becomes about whether or not you are willing to limit your potential
effectiveness by reducing the tools at your disposal.
Mr. Obama's decision to release the memos in the first place has been
criticized by former Attorney General Michael Mukasey, former CIA director
Michael Hayden, independent Sen. Joe Lieberman and others; Mukasey and
Hayden wrote in the Wall Street Journal that "its effect will be to invite
the kind of institutional timidity and fear of recrimination that weakened
intelligence gathering in the past, and that we came sorely to regret on
Sept. 11, 2001."
The president rejects such arguments; to him, the American identity is tied
to the fact that "we are willing to go back and correct [our] mistakes and
keep our eye on those ideals and values that have been passed on generation
to generation," as he said today. (The president has also pointed out that
the techniques outlined in the memos had previously been disclosed, and
thus, he argues, the release of the memos does not aide terrorists.)
In the broadest sense, the dispute centers on questions of idealism and
pragmatism - and to what degree the two can be merged. The president
believes America can be kept safe while operating at higher ethical
standards than its enemies; the former vice president believes that it is
sometimes necessary to use tactics that many find objectionable in order to
protect the American way of life.