Discussion:
Vote NO on Indian gambling propositions!
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dank
2008-01-23 19:12:23 UTC
Permalink
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.

I lived in Las Vegas for a decade and the only thing I can say about
gambling is that it is addictive as crack and for some reason makes
people chain-smoke tobacco cigarettes. I don't know what it is about
gambling and nicotine but the two addictions are completely intertwined
and by expanding gambling you increase the number of smokers as well as
the places they smoke. In Las Vegas they gamble everywhere, including
inside convenience stores and supermarkets, and smoking is permitted in
those places because gamblers won't gamble if they can't smoke and
supermarkets simply cannot stay in business selling food to people who
need to eat unless they put a bank of video poker machines in the
produce section.

Aside from toxic nicotine fumes, another reason to oppose Indian gambling
is because money that Californians gamble away is money they don't spend
on taxed products and services, since Indian casinos pay no state taxes.
The state would collect lots of tax revenue if that money had been spent
on movie tickets, restaurant meals, or almost any other recreational
activity besides gambling. Lost tax revenues combined with the increase
in tobacco-related health care costs means that the ballot propositions
are not a profitable deal for the state at all.
Justin Case
2008-01-23 20:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
Typical "head-in-the-sand" rhetoric. You left out that gambling causes
alcoholism, prostitution, gout, arthritis, mange, dandruff, fleas,
cockroaches, etc. etc. Now, go back to your padded room.
n***@millions
2008-01-23 20:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin Case
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
Typical "head-in-the-sand" rhetoric. You left out that gambling causes
alcoholism, prostitution, gout, arthritis, mange, dandruff, fleas,
cockroaches, etc. etc. Now, go back to your padded room.
Gambling casinos then should offer health insurance coverage. However,
there is one correction needed in your above statement, there have
been no sightings of fleas in the casinos.

DCI
Justin Case
2008-01-23 23:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions
Gambling casinos then should offer health insurance coverage.
However, there is one correction needed in your above statement,
there have been no sightings of fleas in the casinos.
I see; the issue is health coverage? You are also implying that non-
indian enterprises in California offer health care to all their
employees. You've been influenced by those idiotic anti-propositions
TV spots that also claim none of the money is targeted for schools.
Racetracks and Nevada Casinos certainly don't want to see expansion
of any gambling (indian or otherwise) that will compete with them.

FWIW, I did not say anything about fleas in casinos, I said casinos
cause them (amongst other ills).

--
dank
2008-02-01 08:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Justin Case wrote...
Post by Justin Case
Post by n***@millions
Gambling casinos then should offer health insurance coverage.
However, there is one correction needed in your above statement,
there have been no sightings of fleas in the casinos.
I see; the issue is health coverage? You are also implying that non-
indian enterprises in California offer health care to all their
employees. You've been influenced by those idiotic anti-propositions
TV spots that also claim none of the money is targeted for schools.
Racetracks and Nevada Casinos certainly don't want to see expansion
of any gambling (indian or otherwise) that will compete with them.
The Indian casinos shouldn't have to offer health coverage because
reservation members are already covered by a variety of federal
programs. Unless the casinos intend to hire non-Inians, in which
case I don't see how gambling really benefits them at all. Is
their vision for the future simply collecting larger welfare checks
or do they have a plan to advance Native culture instead of just
selling addictive stuff to stupid white people?

I like the one tribe in northwest Arizona that built a reservation
casino located about 1.5 hours from Las Vegas. Unfortunately, it
was located at the end of a 50-mile dirt road from hell and didn't
offer any pyramids, volcanoes, or strip clubs, and the tribal
council that probably looted the construction budget was astounded
that the casino wasn't attracting any customers. They have since
installed a glass-bottom bridge over the Grand Canyon, but they
still haven't bothered to pave the road.

Do the Indian tribes promoting the gambling propositions offer any
timeline for when the roads will be paved? Are any specific
projects planned for the tribal casino profits or will they simply
be embezzled? Gambling is so corrupting that a state agency with
broad enforcement powers has been created to oversee casino
operations in Nevada, yet that state is corrupt to the core and
the casinos rule. Casinos will destroy what is left of Native
culture and turn it into a corrupt mafia racket. The tribes would
be better off selling crack cocaine and being honest by not
pretending it offers any benefit to society.

dank
2008-01-27 17:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions
Gambling casinos then should offer health insurance coverage. However,
there is one correction needed in your above statement, there have
been no sightings of fleas in the casinos.
If casinos had to provide health insurance to workers the premiums would
be so high from the toxic work environment that casinos would be forced
to either ban smoking or tighten the slot payouts, both of which would
drive gamblers (ooh, excuuuse me, "gamers") away. And there are no
fleas because nicotine is also used as an insecticide.
Branson Hunter
2008-01-23 23:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections.  The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
Typical "head-in-the-sand" rhetoric.  You left out that gambling causes
alcoholism, prostitution, gout, arthritis, mange, dandruff, fleas,
cockroaches, etc. etc.  Now, go back to your padded room.
It's not rhetoric. It's a well thought out post with social redeeming
value. Justin, you're a jerk.

Branson Hunter
And just today via absentee ballot I begrudgingly vote FOR 94, 95, 96
and 97.
-----------------
Wayne
2008-01-23 20:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
I lived in Las Vegas for a decade and the only thing I can say about
gambling is that it is addictive as crack and for some reason makes
people chain-smoke tobacco cigarettes. I don't know what it is about
gambling and nicotine but the two addictions are completely intertwined
and by expanding gambling you increase the number of smokers as well as
the places they smoke. In Las Vegas they gamble everywhere, including
inside convenience stores and supermarkets, and smoking is permitted in
those places because gamblers won't gamble if they can't smoke and
supermarkets simply cannot stay in business selling food to people who
need to eat unless they put a bank of video poker machines in the
produce section.
Aside from toxic nicotine fumes, another reason to oppose Indian gambling
is because money that Californians gamble away is money they don't spend
on taxed products and services, since Indian casinos pay no state taxes.
The state would collect lots of tax revenue if that money had been spent
on movie tickets, restaurant meals, or almost any other recreational
activity besides gambling. Lost tax revenues combined with the increase
in tobacco-related health care costs means that the ballot propositions
are not a profitable deal for the state at all.
Well, I certainly am not going to vote for it when the indians themselves
are arguing about the good/bad of the propositions.

Personally, I wouldn't want Nevada style gambling implemented in California.
But it would make more sense to just legalize gambling in general than to
have these little pockets of indian gambling that are so controversial.

Need proof....talk with the people in San Bernardino or the Palm Springs
area who didn't see anything wrong with a little bingo game going on at the
reservation. Next thing you know, after falling down the slippery slope,
there are full blown casinos that destroyed the property values on all
sides, not to mention the impact on traffic patterns in the neighborhoods
and freeways. Yeah, the indians buy will buy a new fire truck every now and
then to shut up the city governments. And the casinos provide a lot of
employment for non-indians.

Why not just cut out the middle man and legalize gambling? It must be a
lucrative business, as the indians are willing to spend MILLION$ for
commercials promoting their business.
Shawn Hirn
2008-01-24 12:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Why not just cut out the middle man and legalize gambling? It must be a
lucrative business, as the indians are willing to spend MILLION$ for
commercials promoting their business.
I totally agree, and I do not feel that gambling and smoking are
correlated 1-1. I know several people who spend many hours at the Las
Vegas and Atlantic City gaming tables and they don't smoke. Las Vegas
went non-smoking in its non-gaming restaurants and bars. I suspect in a
few years, that ban will be amended to include gaming areas as well. It
is happening in Atlantic City and it will happen eventually in other
casinos in Las Vegas and elsewhere.
The BIG N
2008-01-24 12:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Hirn
Why not just cut out the middle man and legalize gambling?  It must be a
lucrative business, as the indians are willing to spend MILLION$ for
commercials promoting their business.
I totally agree, and I do not feel that gambling and smoking are
correlated 1-1. I know several people who spend many hours at the Las
Vegas and Atlantic City gaming tables and they don't smoke. Las Vegas
went non-smoking in its non-gaming restaurants and bars. I suspect in a
few years, that ban will be amended to include gaming areas as well. It
is happening in Atlantic City and it will happen eventually in other
casinos in Las Vegas and elsewhere.
40,842
dank
2008-01-27 17:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Shawn Hirn wrote...
Post by Shawn Hirn
Post by Wayne
Why not just cut out the middle man and legalize gambling? It must be a
lucrative business, as the indians are willing to spend MILLION$ for
commercials promoting their business.
I totally agree, and I do not feel that gambling and smoking are
correlated 1-1. I know several people who spend many hours at the Las
Vegas and Atlantic City gaming tables and they don't smoke. Las Vegas
went non-smoking in its non-gaming restaurants and bars. I suspect in a
few years, that ban will be amended to include gaming areas as well. It
is happening in Atlantic City and it will happen eventually in other
casinos in Las Vegas and elsewhere.
There are no non-gambling restaurants or bars in Las Vegas, except maybe
McDonalds. I already said that even supermarkets have video poker
machines, and even the dinkiest restaurant will have several machines
to occupy customers while they wait. There will NEVER be a ban on
smoking in gambling areas because I already told you that all compulsive
gamblers are compulsive chain-smokers. It's something psychiatric -
most smokers are just nervous fidgety types who need something to do
with their hands like pushing buttons on a slot machine like some sort
of rat in a goddamn laboratory experiment.

There also will never be a market for non-smoking casinos because they
already tried that and it lasted about a week (the smokers defied the
ban anyway), and several casinos tried offering a small non-smoking
section, which smokers also ignored and which got smaller and smaller
until they were gone. And the reason there is no market is because
non-smokers don't gamble much and so the casinos don't give a fuck
about them. There will be no law to ban smoking in casinos because
the casinos own the Nevada state legislature as well as the Las
Vegas city council.

==================================================================
"I don't believe in cigarettes, in fact when people smoke, I can't
hear what they're saying. I've fine tuned myself to shut out the
words of smokers. So I miss out on a lot of conversations."
-- Marilyn Manson
==================================================================
Shawn Hirn
2008-01-28 00:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
Shawn Hirn wrote...
Post by Shawn Hirn
Post by Wayne
Why not just cut out the middle man and legalize gambling? It must be a
lucrative business, as the indians are willing to spend MILLION$ for
commercials promoting their business.
I totally agree, and I do not feel that gambling and smoking are
correlated 1-1. I know several people who spend many hours at the Las
Vegas and Atlantic City gaming tables and they don't smoke. Las Vegas
went non-smoking in its non-gaming restaurants and bars. I suspect in a
few years, that ban will be amended to include gaming areas as well. It
is happening in Atlantic City and it will happen eventually in other
casinos in Las Vegas and elsewhere.
There are no non-gambling restaurants or bars in Las Vegas, except maybe
McDonalds.
Absolutely wrong. I have been to Las Vegas many times. My next visit
will likely be for a vacation this April followed by a conference this
May. I have long-time friends who live there and we always get together
for dinner or lunch when I am in town and we have been to many
restaurants where gambling is not allowed. One example that comes to
mind right away is that huge German restaurant right across from the
Hard Rock casino, then there's Gordon Birch (sic?) down the street from
there, Bahama Breeze, and tons of other local and chain places.
Post by dank
I already said that even supermarkets have video poker
machines, and even the dinkiest restaurant will have several machines
to occupy customers while they wait. There will NEVER be a ban on
smoking in gambling areas because I already told you that all compulsive
gamblers are compulsive chain-smokers.
Again, not true. I have an aunt on my mom's side who gambled her way
into deep debt. I have a cousin on my dad's side who had a serious
gambling problem. Neither of those people has ever smoked, and neither
drinks alcohol.
Post by dank
There also will never be a market for non-smoking casinos because they
already tried that and it lasted about a week (the smokers defied the
ban anyway), and several casinos tried offering a small non-smoking
section, which smokers also ignored and which got smaller and smaller
until they were gone. And the reason there is no market is because
non-smokers don't gamble much and so the casinos don't give a fuck
about them. There will be no law to ban smoking in casinos because
the casinos own the Nevada state legislature as well as the Las
Vegas city council.
Go to the Foxwoods casino or any of the other casinos where they have a
small gaming room set aside where smoking is not permitted and you will
see plenty of people gambling.
Rip
2008-01-24 01:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The
propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
I'm voting no because it just gives politicians more money to steal.
Also, Arnold was elected to cut government spending, and he lied.
Justin Case
2008-01-24 01:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rip
I'm voting no because it just gives politicians more money to steal.
Also, Arnold was elected to cut government spending, and he lied.
Wow, someone with an honest and logical point of view. Bravo, I'm with
you.



--
The BIG N
2008-01-28 00:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by dank
I urge all California voters to vote against Propositions 94, 95, 96,
and 97 in the Feb. 5 presidential primary elections. The propositions
would greatly expand gambling machines on Indian reservations and turn
much of the state into an ashtray like Las Vegas.
I'm with you DINK, especially as far as them injuns is concerned.
They've been bleedin' our system for too dang long the way it is. What
the hell do they want?? We gave them swell places to live, we taught
'em the white man's ways, we cut their hair short and put them in
special schools for ed-ju-ca-shun, we looked out for their physical
fitness as we marched them through the harshest of weather and terrain
while moving them from place to place, we always were honorable and
truthful towards them(especially with the treaties), we portrayed them
in a dignified way in our film productions, we gave them a hell of a
nice outing at Wounded Knee, and that's the thanks we get! They want
to make an independent living and fill our air with smoke!! Did'ja'
ever notice how cocky they've become ever since they gave Custer his
comeuppance and kicked his ass!!

Dang it, DINK, we got us a real injun problem here. Another durn
tootin' uprisin' if ya' ask me! Circle the wagons ya' silly nit-wit,
The BIG N will head 'em off at the pass. Saddle up pilgrim!!
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