Will gasoline go under $2 by Election Day?

[Stan de SD]

I'm amazed at the free-fall in gasoline prices around here. I paid
$2.509 yesterday at Costco in Sunnyvale. Is this an effort by the oil
companies to give some help to McCain?

As we see now, 22 days later, it's just supply and demand once again.
People aren't buying as much gasoline, and thus the price keeps
dropping.  Yesterday (11/20) the oil price dropped to below $49 a
barrel!  The oil cartels are really really pissed off about this.
So, there's no need for offshore drilling, but, whoa, didn't the
Congress vote to allow it?  Silly people.

Fuel prices will go up as demand increases, you just pointed that out.
5-10 years ago, all you lefties pissed and moaned about how it made no
point to drill in Alaska because we couldn't bring the oil to market
for another 5-10 years. Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices. Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas? How
are Democrats any different from the guy who refuses to fix his roof
when it's sunny, because he doesn't need to, and refuses to fix it
when it's raining, because he doesn't want to get wet?

[SMS]

Post by Stan de SD
Fuel prices will go up as demand increases, you just pointed that out.
5-10 years ago, all you lefties pissed and moaned about how it made no
point to drill in Alaska because we couldn't bring the oil to market
for another 5-10 years. Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices. Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas? How
are Democrats any different from the guy who refuses to fix his roof
when it's sunny, because he doesn't need to, and refuses to fix it
when it's raining, because he doesn't want to get wet?

No one is saying that more oil exploration isn't needed. But the oil
companies own vast acreage in Alaska that they _know_ has huge reserves,
that they haven't drilled yet.

There is no shortage of crude oil, or of known reserves. They don't want
to tap all their reserves at once because they don't want to create even
more of an over-supply. The recent run-up in oil prices was due solely
to speculators, and remember that those were futures prices, they
weren't what an BP/Arco refinery in California pays BP/Arco for crude
oil from Alaska (and incidentally they weren't even pumping at full
capacity in Alaska when oil futures were $150).

We could take a good lesson from Europe when it comes to reducing
consumption. Now that low-sulfur diesel fuel is available in the U.S.,
we could move big time to diesel powered cars which are far more fuel
efficient, without the need for complex and expensive hybrid drive
systems, and without the need for all those batteries. The VW Jetta TDI
is the first one to make it to the U.S..
"http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4235586.html" and
it's more fuel-efficient than the Prius, and a much nicer car to boot.

[Stan de SD]

Post by SMS

Post by Stan de SD
Fuel prices will go up as demand increases, you just pointed that out.
5-10 years ago, all you lefties pissed and moaned about how it made no
point to drill in Alaska because we couldn't bring the oil to market
for another 5-10 years. Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices. Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas? How
are Democrats any different from the guy who refuses to fix his roof
when it's sunny, because he doesn't need to, and refuses to fix it
when it's raining, because he doesn't want to get wet?

No one is saying that more oil exploration isn't needed. But the oil
companies own vast acreage in Alaska that they _know_ has huge reserves,
that they haven't drilled yet.
There is no shortage of crude oil, or of known reserves. They don't want
to tap all their reserves at once because they don't want to create even
more of an over-supply. The recent run-up in oil prices was due solely
to speculators, and remember that those were futures prices, they
weren't what an BP/Arco refinery in California pays BP/Arco for crude
oil from Alaska (and incidentally they weren't even pumping at full
capacity in Alaska when oil futures were $150).

Here's your clue of the day: there are not only trillions of barrels
of oil still inthe ground, but billions of tons of coal, and millions
of tons of gold, silver, platinum, etc. However, a large majority will
remain in the ground because it's not economically feasible to
extract. The higher prices climb, the more oil is available for
drilling. The fact that some reserves are not being drilled by the oil
companies isn't a sign of some great conspiracy. It means those
reserves aren't economically viable at the current price level. Try
learning something about basic economics, OK?

[Jym Dyer]

Post by Stan de SD
The higher prices climb, the more oil is available for
drilling.

=v= That's very nearly true. The overall amount of oil
is of course finite, but otherwise, yes, there's more oil
to be had at greater expense. That's Peak Oil.

=v= Of course, "greater expense" exists in terms of energy
as well as economics, so this isn't exactly a slam-dunk.
<_Jym_>

[Stan de SD]

Post by Stan de SD
The higher prices climb, the more oil is available for
drilling.

=v= That's very nearly true.  The overall amount of oil
is of course finite, but otherwise, yes, there's more oil
to be had at greater expense.  That's Peak Oil.

We are a long way from encountering "Peak Oil". Our biggest problem at
this point is idiots who don't want to drill, not a lack of oil to be
drilled.

[David Kaye]

Post by Stan de SD
Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices.

Exactly. Oil is sold on the world market, whether it is harvested
here or in the Middle East. Thus, drilling in Alaska makes no
difference to the price of oil and ultimately gasoline.

The only difference is the royalties paid to the state. California
does not charge royalties for oil drilling in our state. THIS is what
you should be promoting. California harvests enough oil already that
our state budget could be balanced without raising any taxes or
cutting the budget.

As for the price of gasoline rising with demand, as a lefty
capitalist, I have no problem with that. It's self-contained social
engineering that will reduce the number of cars on the roads during
peak demand times. Heck, it's either that or push more people into
buses. But Stan hates buses.

Post by Stan de SD
Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas?

Uh, clue: Barack Obama isn't a lefty. He's about as Republican as
they come. Notice how many Republican's he'll have in his cabinet and
in his inner circle of advisors? If you didn't notice, maybe it's
about time you do.

You should be proud that he's keeping a lot of Bushies in there.

I'm not, but then I didn't vote for Obama or McCain. I know shills
for the power structure when I see them.

[michael ellis]

Post by Stan de SD
Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices.

Exactly. Oil is sold on the world market, whether it is harvested
here or in the Middle East. Thus, drilling in Alaska makes no
difference to the price of oil and ultimately gasoline.

The only difference is the royalties paid to the state. California
does not charge royalties for oil drilling in our state. THIS is what
you should be promoting. California harvests enough oil already that
our state budget could be balanced without raising any taxes or
cutting the budget.

As for the price of gasoline rising with demand, as a lefty
capitalist, I have no problem with that. It's self-contained social
engineering that will reduce the number of cars on the roads during
peak demand times. Heck, it's either that or push more people into
buses. But Stan hates buses.

Post by Stan de SD
Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas?

Uh, clue: Barack Obama isn't a lefty. He's about as Republican as
they come. Notice how many Republican's he'll have in his cabinet and
in his inner circle of advisors? If you didn't notice, maybe it's
about time you do.

You should be proud that he's keeping a lot of Bushies in there.

I'm not, but then I didn't vote for Obama or McCain. I know shills
for the power structure when I see them.


How many of Bush's cabinet has Obama appointed to his cabinet?
I just notice Robert Gates Sec of Defense. Who else from Bush adm did
Obama appoint? If there isn't any others..then most of them are from
Clinton adm.

[SMS]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Stan de SD
Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices.

Exactly. Oil is sold on the world market, whether it is harvested
here or in the Middle East. Thus, drilling in Alaska makes no
difference to the price of oil and ultimately gasoline.

Not exactly. The futures price of oil is not what the refiners are
paying for crude. A BP/Arco refinery receiving crude from BP/Arco wells
in Alaska never paid $150/barrel, and they're not paying $50/barrel now.
If they didn't have their own supply from Alaska, and had to buy crude
on the world market, then they could not compete against other companies
with their own sources elsewhere in the world, be it Citgo from
Venezuela, etc..

Think about the price of gasoline versus the price of crude, and how
much gasoline and diesel you get from a barrel of oil. Gasoline often
costs much less than the cost of oil used to make it, when you include
the costs of refining, transportation, and taxes, but not really because
no one is really paying the futures price.

The oil companies have lots of untapped sources in Alaska without
resorting to the ANWR. The ANWR proponents and off-shore drilling
proponents never really cared about the small amount of oil in those
areas, it was always a political battle and a power struggle to show
that they could do whatever they wanted to the environment. Bush/Cheney
was their last chance for this.

[lorad]

Post by Stan de SD

I'm amazed at the free-fall in gasoline prices around here. I paid
$2.509 yesterday at Costco in Sunnyvale. Is this an effort by the oil
companies to give some help to McCain?

As we see now, 22 days later, it's just supply and demand once again.
People aren't buying as much gasoline, and thus the price keeps
dropping.  Yesterday (11/20) the oil price dropped to below $49 a
barrel!  The oil cartels are really really pissed off about this.
So, there's no need for offshore drilling, but, whoa, didn't the
Congress vote to allow it?  Silly people.

Fuel prices will go up as demand increases, you just pointed that out.
5-10 years ago, all you lefties pissed and moaned about how it made no
point to drill in Alaska because we couldn't bring the oil to market
for another 5-10 years. Now, I guess we don't need to drill because
due to the end of the summer driving season and a slowdown in the
economy, we have a temporary respite from high gas prices. Now what's
going to be your excuse 5 years from now when Obama and his idiot
followers make a mess of our energy situation and we have no gas? How
are Democrats any different from the guy who refuses to fix his roof
when it's sunny, because he doesn't need to, and refuses to fix it
when it's raining, because he doesn't want to get wet?

Demand has only dropped 5%.. yet gas prices have declined from $147 a
barrel to $ 55 a barrel...
In other words gas prices have declined about 60%

I don't know what you shill rightist-oil loons are smoking.. but
clearly your are being disinformative if not outright LIARS.

Thank you for your attention.

[Rudy Canoza]

I'm amazed at the free-fall in gasoline prices around here. I paid
$2.509 yesterday at Costco in Sunnyvale. Is this an effort by the oil
companies to give some help to McCain?

As we see now, 22 days later, it's just supply and demand once again.
People aren't buying as much gasoline, and thus the price keeps
dropping. Yesterday (11/20) the oil price dropped to below $49 a
barrel! The oil cartels are really really pissed off about this.

"Cartels", plural? You don't know what you're talking about. There is
*one* cartel, OPEC, and even that hasn't been enough to prevent the
virtual free-fall in oil prices.

The price has fallen more due to supply reasons than demand reasons.
Demand is down, but not enough to produce a fall in the price of crude
oil of nearly 2/3 and a fall in the price of gasoline of more than 60%.

It's always hilarious to watch the left show their utter, bone-headed
ignorance of economics, particularly over oil. All the real-world
evidence runs completely counter to their beliefs. For example, the
left believe that the oil companies can charge whatever they want,
without regard to supply and demand. If that were so, why has the price
fallen? When the price of gasoline reached more than $5.00 a gallon,
why didn't they just keep it there? For that matter, why don't they
just charge $10.00 or $15.00 or $20.00 a gallon, if they have complete
control over price?

Now, a few even dopier leftists like to delude themselves with the
ridiculous - but satisfying to dopes - notion that the oil companies
drop the price to influence the election, but the election is several
weeks in the past now, the oil companies didn't get the result they
presumably wanted, and the price continues to drop! But stupid,
willfully ignorant leftists won't let go.

So, there's no need for offshore drilling, but, whoa, didn't the
Congress vote to allow it? Silly people.

If the cost of obtaining the oil is less than the market price for the
oil, then it makes sense to drill for it.

[kkt]

Post by Rudy Canoza

I'm amazed at the free-fall in gasoline prices around here. I paid
$2.509 yesterday at Costco in Sunnyvale. Is this an effort by the oil
companies to give some help to McCain?

As we see now, 22 days later, it's just supply and demand once again.
People aren't buying as much gasoline, and thus the price keeps
dropping. Yesterday (11/20) the oil price dropped to below $49 a
barrel! The oil cartels are really really pissed off about this.

"Cartels", plural? You don't know what you're talking about. There is
*one* cartel, OPEC, and even that hasn't been enough to prevent the
virtual free-fall in oil prices.

It's not in OPEC members' interests for the price of oil to be as high
as it was this summer. At that price, oil-using countries will
aggressively pursue alternatives to oil -- oil from oil shale,
ethanol, electricity generated from wind or nuclear power, hybrid and
all-electric vehicles, hydrogen, etc.

-- Patrick

[Rudy Canoza]

Post by kkt

Post by Rudy Canoza

I'm amazed at the free-fall in gasoline prices around here. I paid
$2.509 yesterday at Costco in Sunnyvale. Is this an effort by the oil
companies to give some help to McCain?

As we see now, 22 days later, it's just supply and demand once again.
People aren't buying as much gasoline, and thus the price keeps
dropping. Yesterday (11/20) the oil price dropped to below $49 a
barrel! The oil cartels are really really pissed off about this.

"Cartels", plural? You don't know what you're talking about. There is
*one* cartel, OPEC, and even that hasn't been enough to prevent the
virtual free-fall in oil prices.

It's not in OPEC members' interests for the price of oil to be as high
as it was this summer.

That depends. It certainly isn't in their interest for it to fall as
low as it has fallen, either.

Post by kkt
At that price, oil-using countries will
aggressively pursue alternatives to oil -- oil from oil shale,
ethanol, electricity generated from wind or nuclear power, hybrid and
all-electric vehicles, hydrogen, etc.

They'll try.