Discussion:
Christmas hijacked with 'gay' Nativity
(too old to reply)
Wayne
2008-12-11 01:39:25 UTC
Permalink
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?


Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival

Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern

A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.

Frank van Dalen, ProGay chairman, told reporters his group is hosting the
event to boost "choices for homosexual men and women" during Christmas week.

"Right now, there's not much to do," he said.

The celebration will promote homosexuality and religion, van Dalen said.

However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay" manger
scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."

"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.

The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.

"Christmas is about more than religion, it's also about love and families,
not to mention shopping," he said. "Two men or two women can form a family
too these days, even one with a child."

The Netherlands legalized same-sex unions in 2001, and "gays" are allowed to
adopt. The Dutch Cabinet participated in an Amsterdam "gay" pride boat
parade Aug. 2. Van Dalen attended the event and said he was very pleased
with "Christian participation." Several masses were held on that day.

"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 01:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).

They have a wonderful sense of humor. They built a new museum in
Amsterdam right next to a channel with the architect imagining a ship
cresting the waves. The sloping but flat roof was not so steep that
paople couldn't confortably walk on it, with a goal of making the roof
double as a town square.

The locals decided it looked like the stern of a ship more than
the bow and nicknamed the building "The Titanic."
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 16:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."


Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate and needlessly provocative display.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 18:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian
holiday by hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete
with church services and a homosexual Nativity featuring two
Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an
open-air market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has
even scheduled church services for Christmas day, the Associated
Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate and needlessly provocative display.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country. What I pointed out was that hardly anyone in
Amsterdam would be offended, and that is true. Of course, it helps
to have actually been there.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 18:38:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian
holiday by hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete
with church services and a homosexual Nativity featuring two
Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an
open-air market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has
even scheduled church services for Christmas day, the Associated
Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate and needlessly provocative display.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.

Prediction: Billy will argue about this loud and long, and pointlessly.
Post by Bill Z.
What I pointed out was that hardly anyone in
Amsterdam would be offended, and that is true. Of course, it helps
to have actually been there.
Of course, you don't really know anything significant about the Dutch
character. I have, in fact, been to Amsterdam a few times, but I'm not
arrogant enough, as some people are, to think that qualifies me to speak
authoritatively on the Dutch character. Some people think themselves
instant experts on the basis of virtually nothing, but I'm not one of those.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 19:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate and needlessly provocative display.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Prediction: Billy will argue about this loud and long, and pointlessly.
Prediction: Rudy will try to ignore reality as always.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
What I pointed out was that hardly anyone in
Amsterdam would be offended, and that is true. Of course, it helps
to have actually been there.
Of course, you don't really know anything significant about the Dutch
character. I have, in fact, been to Amsterdam a few times, but I'm
not arrogant enough, as some people are, to think that qualifies me to
speak authoritatively on the Dutch character. Some people think
themselves instant experts on the basis of virtually nothing, but I'm
not one of those.
ROTFLMAO - you certainly seem to think you are enough of an authority
to push the idea that they would be offended!
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 19:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate and needlessly provocative display.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Prediction: Billy will argue about this loud and long, and pointlessly.
Prediction: Rudy will try to ignore reality as always.
You lived down to expectations.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
What I pointed out was that hardly anyone in
Amsterdam would be offended, and that is true. Of course, it helps
to have actually been there.
Of course, you don't really know anything significant about the Dutch
character. I have, in fact, been to Amsterdam a few times, but I'm
not arrogant enough, as some people are, to think that qualifies me to
speak authoritatively on the Dutch character. Some people think
themselves instant experts on the basis of virtually nothing, but I'm
not one of those.
ROTFLMAO - you certainly seem to think you are enough of an authority
to push the idea that they would be offended!
Some people clearly are offended. I didn't need to have any special
insight to reach that fully justified conclusion. You, of course,
commonly pretend to expertise and authority you don't really have. You
do seem to know mountaineering, but your arrogance leads you to think
you have more expertise and authority in many other areas that you
really don't have.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 20:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do, all the more so given
how religion in the Netherlands is in a state of decline.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>:

In the 20th century the major religions began to decline: most
of the Dutch Jews did not survive the Holocaust; and in the
1960s and 1970s the Protestantism and Catholicism began to
decline. There is one major exception: Islam which grew
considerably as the result of immigration. Linked with the
decline of religion is the Dutch adoption of liberal social
policies towards abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and
same-sex marriage. Since the year 2000 there has been raised
awareness of religion, mainly due to Muslim extremism[1]
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Prediction: Billy will argue about this loud and long, and pointlessly.
Prediction: Rudy will try to ignore reality as always.
You lived down to expectations.
Another mindless, content-free piece of rubbish from Rudy.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - you certainly seem to think you are enough of an authority
to push the idea that they would be offended!
Some people clearly are offended. I didn't need to have any special
insight to reach that fully justified conclusion.
What you need is data - how many are offended. If hardly anyone is,
you have no case. What you are arguing is no different than claiming
that anti-war people are offended by anyone eating meat because a
small vegan group of 5 or 10 people showed up at an anti-war march in
San Francisco with signs that claimed "Peace begins with what's on
your plate."
Post by Rudy Canoza
You, of course, commonly pretend to expertise and authority you
don't really have.
You are simply a liar.

<rest ignored - he's just ranting>
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 21:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Post by Bill Z.
[snip irrelevant gas]
This isn't about religion, nor is it about whether that particular
religious group has a lot of exposure or standing in the Netherlands.
It's about whether or not the Dutch people in general are offended by
this kind of gratuitous provocation on the part of these queers, and how
you would possibly know one way or another.

The fact is, you don't know.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Prediction: Billy will argue about this loud and long, and pointlessly.
Prediction: Rudy will try to ignore reality as always.
You lived down to expectations.
Another [snip gas]
You did, in fact, live down to low expectations of you.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - you certainly seem to think you are enough of an authority
to push the idea that they would be offended!
Some people clearly are offended. I didn't need to have any special
insight to reach that fully justified conclusion.
What you need is data - how many are offended.
No, I don't. You acted as if you knew that virtually no one is
offended. In fact, you have no idea, and I have shown that at least
some people are offended, and you have no idea how many. But it is
almost certainly more than you pretend.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You, of course, commonly pretend to expertise and authority you
don't really have.
You are simply a liar.
No, I am not. You *do* commonly pretend to know more, and have more
authority, than you really do.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 21:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar - and I'll note how you call any inconvenient facts "irrelevant gas".

<rest snipped - the moron is just arguing for the sake of arguing>
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO - one group of undetermined size is typical of neither a
city nor a country.
I didn't claim they were representative.
What I was pointing out was that this group is no doubt some small
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar
No, I haven't lied.

But the fact remains: you do not have any real expertise on how the
Dutch generally might feel about this stupidly and gratuitously
provocative stunt by the queers intended to outrage and offend people.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 22:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar
No, I haven't lied.
Yes you have.
Post by Rudy Canoza
But the fact remains: you do not have any real expertise on how the
Dutch generally might feel about this stupidly and gratuitously
provocative stunt by the queers intended to outrage and offend people.
If you'd been their you'd know that the vast majority wouldn't care.
BTW, the group you cited has a thing about pornography too. I can only
imagine what they think of the red-light district, yet people living
in Amsterdam are not up in arms over it.

Your touted group is out of touch.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar
No, I haven't lied.
Yes you have.
No, I haven't. But you have, and I documented it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
But the fact remains: you do not have any real expertise on how the
Dutch generally might feel about this stupidly and gratuitously
provocative stunt by the queers intended to outrage and offend people.
If you'd been their
There, not "their"
Post by Bill Z.
you'd know that the vast majority wouldn't care.
I have been there, and unlike you, I don't claim, on the basis of having
a couple of meals and maybe smoking a joint in a dope cafe, to have a
thorough understanding of Dutch opinion. I don't need that in order to
show what I claimed: that at least some Dutch are offended by the
queers' gratuitous provocation.

In any case, you clearly are not an authority on any strands of Dutch
cultural and political sentiment, either. But you don't have the good
sense to admit it; you pretend to expertise and authority you simply
don't have, and which, judging by your conduct here, you never would
have had the mental discipline to acquire. You really are slovenly.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 18:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar
No, I haven't lied.
Yes you have.
No, I haven't. But you have, and I documented it.
Liar.

<rest ignored - he's just ranting>
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 19:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
fringe group of no consequence.
Of course, you have no clue of how representative they are of Dutch opinion.
Actually, I have a clue, more so than you do
No, really you don't.
Liar
No, I haven't lied.
Yes you have.
No, I haven't. But you have, and I documented it.
Liar.
No, you have lied, and I have documented it. And now that you are lying
about my prior documentation of your lying, you are guilty of lying again.

As I patiently explained, this is your natural first reaction: lying.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 21:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Liar.
No, you have lied, and I have documented it. And now that you are
lying about my prior documentation of your lying, you are guilty of
lying again.
As I patiently explained, this is your natural first reaction: lying.
Rudy, you are a bald-faced liar.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Liar.
No, you have lied, and I have documented it. And now that you are
lying about my prior documentation of your lying, you are guilty of
lying again.
As I patiently explained, this is your natural first reaction: lying.
Rudy, you are a bald-faced liar.
No, I am not, and I haven't lied at all, but I have solidly documented
your lying. You are a chronic and reflexive liar, not hesitating for an
instant to lie about your lying. You really have no credibility left.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 22:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Liar.
No, you have lied, and I have documented it. And now that you are
lying about my prior documentation of your lying, you are guilty of
lying again.
As I patiently explained, this is your natural first reaction: lying.
Rudy, you are a bald-faced liar.
No, I am not, and I haven't lied at all, but I have solidly documented
your lying. You are a chronic and reflexive liar, not hesitating for
an instant to lie about your lying. You really have no credibility
left.
Yes you are - you've lied continually.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Liar.
No, you have lied, and I have documented it. And now that you are
lying about my prior documentation of your lying, you are guilty of
lying again.
As I patiently explained, this is your natural first reaction: lying.
Rudy, you are a bald-faced liar.
No, I am not, and I haven't lied at all, but I have solidly documented
your lying. You are a chronic and reflexive liar, not hesitating for
an instant to lie about your lying. You really have no credibility
left.
Yes you are
No, I haven't lied, but you have, and it is thoroughly documented.
John
2008-12-11 20:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam?  If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
    However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
    manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?" Can you describe--with historical accuracy--the myth
being mocked? Do you KNOW or have EVIDENCE of what the scene was?
Can you cite scientific evidence or studies that show what or how that
scene is supposed to be displayed?
and needlessly provocative display.
I will give you that.

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 21:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
delcine there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Once again, it appears you didn't read the story, because it
specifically mentioned a group in the Netherlands that isn't laughing
about the historically inaccurate
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 21:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that - the number zero is a possibility. It's
not like we have their birth certificates.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 22:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie (ask any atheist as an experiment). Here's what you
snipped:

"You don't even know that - the number zero is a possibility.
It's not like we have their birth certificates."
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 18:51:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part. If you want to claim otherwise, provide
some documentation like Roman records (they controlled the area at the
time).
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 19:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No, not a lie at all. We *all* know - that includes you and *all* the
other knee-jerk defenders of gratuitous queer provocation - that
regardless of whether Joseph and Mary were real people, or are merely
figures in a religious myth, there were only one of each. We *know*
this. *YOU* know it. You're just bound and determined to defend and
rationalize gratuitous attempts by queers to outrage people.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 21:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No, not a lie at all.
Yes, another lie on your part. If you want to claim otherwise, provide
some documentation like Roman records (they controlled the area at the
time).
Post by Rudy Canoza
We *all* know - that includes you and *all* the
other knee-jerk defenders of gratuitous queer provocation - that
regardless of whether Joseph and Mary were real people, or are merely
figures in a religious myth, there were only one of each. We *know*
this. *YOU* know it. You're just bound and determined to defend and
rationalize gratuitous attempts by queers to outrage people.
Multiple lies from Rudy. There was simply no evidence of
"gratuitous queer provocation" given the difficulty of offending
Dutch citizens with what might at worst be bad art.

Also, you are ignoring the obvious - that there may not have been "one
Joseph and one Mary" because the actual number could be zero: we don't
have any firm evidence that the number is not zero for the same reason
that we don't have any objective evidence that Jesus really existed
(or that the person portrayed in the Bible wasn't a composite of
various individuals, in which case multiple pairs of parents would
kind of make sense). By objective evidence, I mean things like
Roman governmental records.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No, not a lie at all.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No lies at all, not even for a first time.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
We *all* know - that includes you and *all* the
other knee-jerk defenders of gratuitous queer provocation - that
regardless of whether Joseph and Mary were real people, or are merely
figures in a religious myth, there were only one of each. We *know*
this. *YOU* know it. You're just bound and determined to defend and
rationalize gratuitous attempts by queers to outrage people.
Multiple lies from Rudy.
No lies from Rudy, but several well-documented lies from Bill Zaumen,
establishing firmly that you are indeed a chronic, reflexive liar.
Post by Bill Z.
There was simply no evidence of
"gratuitous queer provocation"
That is exactly what that phony "manger" scene in Holland is.
Post by Bill Z.
Also, you are ignoring the obvious - that there may not have been "one
I have acknowledged already, more than once, that the entire story might
be a cultural myth, but that even if it is, there still is only one
Joseph and one Mary in the myth. The gratuitous provocation by the
Dutch queers is just stupid.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 22:22:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No, not a lie at all.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No lies at all, not even for a first time.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
We *all* know - that includes you and *all* the
other knee-jerk defenders of gratuitous queer provocation - that
regardless of whether Joseph and Mary were real people, or are merely
figures in a religious myth, there were only one of each. We *know*
this. *YOU* know it. You're just bound and determined to defend and
rationalize gratuitous attempts by queers to outrage people.
Multiple lies from Rudy.
No lies from Rudy, but several well-documented lies from Bill Zaumen,
establishing firmly that you are indeed a chronic, reflexive liar.
Post by Bill Z.
There was simply no evidence of "gratuitous queer provocation"
That is exactly what that phony "manger" scene in Holland is.
Nonsense - it's not like they snuck in one night and put it up in the
Vatican.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Also, you are ignoring the obvious - that there may not have been "one
I have acknowledged already, more than once, that the entire story
might be a cultural myth, but that even if it is, there still is only
one Joseph and one Mary in the myth. The gratuitous provocation by
the Dutch queers is just stupid.
It's not a "provocation" - at worst it is a poorly executed artistic
statement. I mean, this was in Amsterdam. You know, the city with
the "red light" district, where prostitutes have street-level "offices"
and the light indicates if the "proprietress" is busy serving a
customer.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Another lie
No.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No, not a lie at all.
Yes, another lie on your part.
No lies at all, not even for a first time.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
We *all* know - that includes you and *all* the
other knee-jerk defenders of gratuitous queer provocation - that
regardless of whether Joseph and Mary were real people, or are merely
figures in a religious myth, there were only one of each. We *know*
this. *YOU* know it. You're just bound and determined to defend and
rationalize gratuitous attempts by queers to outrage people.
Multiple lies from Rudy.
No lies from Rudy, but several well-documented lies from Bill Zaumen,
establishing firmly that you are indeed a chronic, reflexive liar.
Post by Bill Z.
There was simply no evidence of "gratuitous queer provocation"
That is exactly what that phony "manger" scene in Holland is.
Nonsense - it's not like they snuck in one night and put it up in the
Vatican.
That's hardly the definition of what would constitute gratuitous
provocation. Boy, you just keep moving the goalpost in almost every
post now.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Also, you are ignoring the obvious - that there may not have been "one
I have acknowledged already, more than once, that the entire story
might be a cultural myth, but that even if it is, there still is only
one Joseph and one Mary in the myth. The gratuitous provocation by
the Dutch queers is just stupid.
It's not a "provocation" - at worst it is a poorly executed artistic
statement.
It's a provocation, pure and simple.
John
2008-12-11 23:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 00:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
SilentOtto
2008-12-12 00:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.

If you don't believe that, then why believe any of it?

Heh heh...

Rightard closet queers...
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 00:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
John
2008-12-12 05:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 05:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed.
If he did, and I'm willing to accept that there was a historical
"Jesus", even if that wasn't really his name, he had one biological
father and one biological mother. Period. Everyone does. There
weren't two Josephs or two Marys, and there is no historical evidence to
support the idea that either of his parents was queer.

You really are an idiot.
mewhoisme
2008-12-12 15:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed.
If he did, and I'm willing to accept that there was a historical
"Jesus", even if that wasn't really his name, he had one biological
father and one biological mother.  Period.  Everyone does.  There
weren't two Josephs or two Marys, and there is no historical evidence to
support the idea that either of his parents was queer.
There is NO historical evidence that he was even there; that there
even was a manger; or that it took place around the winter solstice.
And you debate the "historical accuracy?" Whether a small group wants
to put on a manger scene with two guys, two women, or anything
deviating from the "traditional" you can't call it historically
inaccurate because there is NO EVIDENCE that any of this ever
happened. If someone wanted to put on a scene around President's day
of George Washington chopping down an Apple Tree would you argue that
it was "historically innacurate" because the myth says that it was a
Cherry tree?

I'm not arguing the case for the Historical Jesus. There is always a
kernel of truth around which a myth is built. But the rest of the
legend is exactly that--legend.
Post by Rudy Canoza
You really are an idiot.
Pot, meet kettle.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 15:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by mewhoisme
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed.
If he did, and I'm willing to accept that there was a historical
"Jesus", even if that wasn't really his name, he had one biological
father and one biological mother. Period. Everyone does. There
weren't two Josephs or two Marys, and there is no historical evidence to
support the idea that either of his parents was queer.
There is NO historical evidence that he was even there; that there
even was a manger; or that it took place around the winter solstice.
Nonetheless, if "he" did exist, "he" didn't have two same-sex "parents".
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 18:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 19:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Whether the story of the birth of Jesus is factual or just myth, we know
that there was only one Joseph, and one Mary - period. We all know that.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 21:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by John
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Whether the story of the birth of Jesus is factual or just myth, we
know that there was only one Joseph, and one Mary - period. We all
know that.
Unable to stick to the subject? And we don't "all know that." Some
people think there was no Joseph and no Mary and no Jesus. And that
isn't just the atheists! Do you think it is not possible, for
example, for a Hindu to be of the opinion that the stuff in the Bible
was all made up?
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by John
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Whether the story of the birth of Jesus is factual or just myth, we
know that there was only one Joseph, and one Mary - period. We all
know that.
Unable to stick to the subject?
I am entirely on topic.
Post by Bill Z.
And we don't "all know that."
Yes, we do.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 22:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by John
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Whether the story of the birth of Jesus is factual or just myth, we
know that there was only one Joseph, and one Mary - period. We all
know that.
Unable to stick to the subject?
I am entirely on topic.
No you are not.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
And we don't "all know that."
Yes, we do.
No we don't, and lying won't change the fact that, if it is a myth
there was no Joseph and no Mary, but regardless of that, at the time a
legal family could have been "Joseph, Mary, and Sally" - men were
allowed to have as many wives as they could afford.)
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by John
According to any scientific study, it is unsure that "he" ever
existed. If you don't exist--and there is no verifiable proof that
"he" did--then you can't have ANY biologocal parents. Provide proof
and I'll believe. Otherwise...
And even if "He" exists, it isn't clear that "He" is a "he"!
Whether the story of the birth of Jesus is factual or just myth, we
know that there was only one Joseph, and one Mary - period. We all
know that.
Unable to stick to the subject?
I am entirely on topic.
No you are not.
Certainly I am.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
And we don't "all know that."
Yes, we do.
No we don't,
Yes, indeed we do - we all do, and that, of course, includes you.
Post by Bill Z.
if it is a myth
there was no Joseph and no Mary, but regardless of that, at the time a
legal family could have been "Joseph, Mary, and Sally" - men were
allowed to have as many wives as they could afford.)
Not Jews.

Monogamy the Jewish ideal

In Judaism the Law tolerated though it did not enact polygamy; but
custom stood higher than the Law. From the period of the return from
the Babylonian Exile, monogamy became the ideal and the custom of
Jewish married life. That monogamy was the ideal may be seen from
several facts. Not only does the narrative of Genesis, containing the
story of the first man and woman, point to monogamy, but Gen. ii. 24
is best explained in the same sense. So, too, in the story of the
Flood, in which the restoration of the human race is depicted, the
monogamous principle is assumed.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=730&letter=M

Once again, your slovenliness gets you in trouble. It usually will.

In the nativity story, for certain, there was one Joseph, one Mary, and
no Sally. We know what the story is, and it is fully irrelevant if it
is historically accurate or just a myth: one Joseph and one Mary, and
that's all.
SilentOtto
2008-12-12 08:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by SilentOtto
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
According to the Bible, Jesus only had one biological parent.
He certainly didn't have two of the same sex.
Are you saying women aren't created in God's image?

Heh heh..

Rightard closet queers...
John
2008-12-12 05:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
"Historically inaccurate?"  How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"  
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
And? That still doesn't "prove" that there was a Mary and Joseph.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 05:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by John
"Historically inaccurate?" How do you know it's "historically
inaccurate?"
There was only one Joseph and one Mary.
You don't even know that
We all do.
Please provide a cite that is verifiable.
All children have only two biological parents.
And?
There weren't two Josephs of two Marys.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 21:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.

This organization is the only one I found complaining publicly at a
level to get mentioned by the press. So explain how your claim that
this group is mad over it is any indication of the reaction of anyone
living in Amsterdam.

I'd say that pretty much discredits your argument. You can't get the
facts straight.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 21:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 21:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation? And how many if non zero, and whether these Dutch members
were particularly offended or if it was just a case of the organization
going around looking for things to complain about so that it would
appear to be doing something.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation?
CHRISTIANS FOR TRUTH CONFERENCE

Then our team from Cape Town arrived and Taryn, Jessica and I set up
our missions display, book tables and Africa Christian Action
literature table for the Christians For Truth Conference. Delegates
from as far afield as Holland, Belgium, Germany, and Switzerland
participated in the conference.
http://www.frontline.org.za/mission%20reports_prayer/KwaZulu_Mission.htm



EURO PARLIAMENT CONCERN OVER DUTCH EUTHANASIA - A growing number of
members of the European Parliament are voicing concern over the Dutch
proposal to legalise active euthanasia. The proposal, which was
accepted by the lower house of the Dutch parliament in December, will
be discussed in the upper house in April. The law removes the active
killing of patients from the Penal Code, and leaves the judgement on
whether the active euthanasia was practised in a careful and right
manner, to a commission. The new changes are once again a step
further down the slippery slope, says Christians for Truth in the
Netherlands.
http://christians4truth.org/news/2001/15-02-2001.html


And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/

You are such a simple twit.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 22:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation?
CHRISTIANS FOR TRUTH CONFERENCE
Then our team from Cape Town arrived and Taryn, Jessica and I set up
our missions display, book tables and Africa Christian Action
literature table for the Christians For Truth Conference. Delegates
from as far afield as Holland, Belgium, Germany, and Switzerland
participated in the conference.
http://www.frontline.org.za/mission%20reports_prayer/KwaZulu_Mission.htm
ROTFLMAO - so it is an self-proclaimed international organization
with an unknown membership level.
Post by Rudy Canoza
EURO PARLIAMENT CONCERN OVER DUTCH EUTHANASIA
http://christians4truth.org/news/2001/15-02-2001.html
So they have something against some Dutch policies. What else is new?
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
Registrant:
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands

Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
18 percent of its population is over the age of 65.
<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&output=html&q=AMSTELVEEN+Bijdorp+69&btnG=Search+Maps>
has a map showing the location of the registrant. Judging from the
culdesacs, it is probably someone's home, judging from Google's
satellite maps.

Just as I said - a marginal group, not even located in Amsterdam itself,
with its headquarters on a different continent.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 22:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation?
CHRISTIANS FOR TRUTH CONFERENCE
Then our team from Cape Town arrived and Taryn, Jessica and I set up
our missions display, book tables and Africa Christian Action
literature table for the Christians For Truth Conference. Delegates
from as far afield as Holland, Belgium, Germany, and Switzerland
participated in the conference.
http://www.frontline.org.za/mission%20reports_prayer/KwaZulu_Mission.htm
ROTFLMAO - so it is
So, it is a group active in the Netherlands, as you petulantly demanded
I show. I have done it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
EURO PARLIAMENT CONCERN OVER DUTCH EUTHANASIA
http://christians4truth.org/news/2001/15-02-2001.html
So they
So, they are an active group in the Netherlands. That's what you
demanded I show, and I have done it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for Truth
has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.

Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 18:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation?
CHRISTIANS FOR TRUTH CONFERENCE
Then our team from Cape Town arrived and Taryn, Jessica and I set up
our missions display, book tables and Africa Christian Action
literature table for the Christians For Truth Conference. Delegates
from as far afield as Holland, Belgium, Germany, and Switzerland
participated in the conference.
http://www.frontline.org.za/mission%20reports_prayer/KwaZulu_Mission.htm
ROTFLMAO - so it is
So, it is a group active in the Netherlands, as you petulantly
demanded I show. I have done it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
EURO PARLIAMENT CONCERN OVER DUTCH EUTHANASIA
http://christians4truth.org/news/2001/15-02-2001.html
So they
So, they are an active group in the Netherlands. That's what you
demanded I show, and I have done it.
What I said was "So they have something against some Dutch policies.
What else is new?" This is a small fringe group. They have an
Internet domain name ending in ".nl" and a local contact. You've
yet to show how active they are. It looks to me, however, like
there "presense" consists of a guy who registered a domain name
for them, while most of what goes on is in South Africa, where
the headquarters are.

It's really funny - you cite these guys as an example of the Dutch
citizenry being offended and it turns out the group is from
another country (you don't even know if the registrant is a Dutch
citizen versus a South African living in the Netherlands).
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar. The issue was not a "presense" but whether it was at all
significant. It isn't. My claim was that hardly anyone in Amsterdam
would be bent out of shape and that is completely true.

You may not like it, but fringe group should not get veto power over
everyone else.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 19:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Wayne
Post by Bill Z.
Wayne, have you ever been to Amsterdam? If you had, you'd know that
people would probably just laugh at it and not get all bent out of
shape like you did, particularly since adherence to religion is in
decline there
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands>).
They have a wonderful sense of humor.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay"
manger scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
Oh, one thing I should have mentioned... According to Google
Christians for Truth has as its home page <http://www.cft.org.za/>
and <http://www.cft.org.za/contact_info/address.htm> tells how
to contact it. The organization is not Dutch: it has an international
office in Geneva, Switzerland and its "Head Office" is in Kranskop
South Africa.
But they have members in the Netherlands.
Citation?
CHRISTIANS FOR TRUTH CONFERENCE
Then our team from Cape Town arrived and Taryn, Jessica and I set up
our missions display, book tables and Africa Christian Action
literature table for the Christians For Truth Conference. Delegates
from as far afield as Holland, Belgium, Germany, and Switzerland
participated in the conference.
http://www.frontline.org.za/mission%20reports_prayer/KwaZulu_Mission.htm
ROTFLMAO - so it is
So, it is a group active in the Netherlands, as you petulantly
demanded I show. I have done it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
EURO PARLIAMENT CONCERN OVER DUTCH EUTHANASIA
http://christians4truth.org/news/2001/15-02-2001.html
So they
So, they are an active group in the Netherlands. That's what you
demanded I show, and I have done it.
What I said was "So they have something against some Dutch policies.
What else is new?" This is a small fringe group.
This one group may, or may not, be quite small; I don't know, and I know
that you don't know, either. But I don't have the burden of showing
that opposition to this deliberate queer attempt to outrage people is
either widespread or intense; all I had to do is show that there is
opposition to it, and that the opposition arises in some segment of the
Dutch population. I have done that.
Post by Bill Z.
It's really funny - you cite these guys as an example of the Dutch
citizenry being offended and it turns out the group is from
another country
The group is Dutch, and you know it. First thing in the morning, and
you start lying again. It really is your first instinct, isn't it?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied, but once again, you have.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 21:10:55 UTC
Permalink
<lots snipped>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied, but once again, you have.
Liar. The issue was not a "presence" but whether it was at all
significant. It isn't. My claim was that hardly anyone in Amsterdam
would be bent out of shape and that is completely true.

You may not like it, but fringe group should not get veto power over
everyone else.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
<lots snipped>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied, but once again, you have.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied; but I have documented that you have.
Post by Bill Z.
The issue was not a "presence" but whether it was at all
significant.
Goalpost move - invalid, and rejected.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 22:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
<lots snipped>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied, but once again, you have.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied; but I have documented that you have.
Post by Bill Z.
The issue was not a "presence" but whether it was at all
significant.
Goalpost move - invalid, and rejected.
Liar - you ignored it over and over and cannot "reject" anything: you
are not an arbiter.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:19:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
<lots snipped>
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Rudy Canoza
And finally: http://www.cftnederland.nl/
ROTFLMAO. If you run whois on their domain, you get
QUA002098-SOLCO
Quality Source
Bijdorp 69
1181MZ AMSTELVEEN
Netherlands
Amstelveen is a town near the airport with about 80,000 residents.
Irrelevant. You asked for a citation proving that Christians for
Truth has a presence in the Netherlands, and I did so.
Once again, we see that you are fundamentally dishonest.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied, but once again, you have.
Liar.
No, I haven't lied; but I have documented that you have.
Post by Bill Z.
The issue was not a "presence" but whether it was at all
significant.
Goalpost move - invalid, and rejected.
Liar
Nope. You tried to move the goalpost, and I stopped you.
Bill Z.
2008-12-12 22:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Bill Z.
The issue was not a "presence" but whether it was at all
significant.
Goalpost move - invalid, and rejected.
Liar
Nope. You tried to move the goalpost, and I stopped you.
Liar.

s***@gmail.com
2008-12-11 04:06:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Frank van Dalen, ProGay chairman, told reporters his group is hosting the
event to boost "choices for homosexual men and women" during Christmas week.
"Right now, there's not much to do," he said.
The celebration will promote homosexuality and religion, van Dalen said.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay" manger
scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"Christmas is about more than religion, it's also about love and families,
not to mention shopping," he said. "Two men or two women can form a family
too these days, even one with a child."
The Netherlands legalized same-sex unions in 2001, and "gays" are allowed to
adopt. The Dutch Cabinet participated in an Amsterdam "gay" pride boat
parade Aug. 2. Van Dalen attended the event and said he was very pleased
with "Christian participation." Several masses were held on that day.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games. We've
got prop 8 passing in California and Bill O'Reilly pitching a hissy
fit about this atheist display next to the nativity scene in
Washington. I think that calls for making a little fun of the
religious conservatism that has swallowed America. Fortunately it
looks like we'll be crawling our way out of that hole - or maybe
jumping come next month?...
lorad
2008-12-11 05:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?

Hows that for 'winks'?
SilentOtto
2008-12-11 05:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Rubbish.

Marriage has legal and tax implications.

Denying a group the right to marry whom they choose is discrimination.
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Go for it.
Post by lorad
Hows that for 'winks'?
It's a free country.

Heh heh...

Rightards...
lorad
2008-12-11 06:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Rubbish.
No, I spoke the truth.
If you deny truth, it's you that becomes a liar.
Post by SilentOtto
Marriage has legal and tax implications.
Yep, that too.
But that addition in no way negates: "Marriage is not a 'right' -
it's a traditional societal convention based upon a Christian
sacrament that excludes homosexual participation."
Post by SilentOtto
Denying a group the right to marry whom they choose is discrimination.
That's true.
But it carries the same legal "discrimination" as, say, not allowing
blind people the 'right' to drive cars.

It's still not a "right" - it's a statutory discrimination.
(would you give convicted criminals the 'right' to own machine guns? -
of course not)
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Go for it.
Post by lorad
Hows that for 'winks'?
It's a free country.
Heh heh...
Rightards...
Being religious does not mean being 'rightist'... or even political...
Just as being athiest and homosexual does not need to equate to being
a fact-distorting, religion supressing liar.
SilentOtto
2008-12-11 07:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Rubbish.
No, I spoke the truth.
If you deny truth, it's you that becomes a liar.
There are plenty of marriage ceremonies performed in this country that
have nothing to do with Christian tradition.

Marriage is a LEGAL institution.

Wrapping it in which ever religious ritual that the participants
choose doesn't alter it's basic nature.
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Marriage has legal and tax implications.
Yep, that too.
Then denying people access to those legal and tax benifits is
discrimination.
Post by lorad
 But that addition in no way negates: "Marriage is not a 'right' -
it's a traditional societal convention based upon a Christian
sacrament that excludes homosexual participation."
We're that the operative definition of marriage, then the state would
have no business involving itself, or providing legal and tax benefits
to the participants..

That would be a violation of state-church separation.
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Denying a group the right to marry whom they choose is discrimination.
That's true.
But it carries the same legal "discrimination" as, say, not allowing
blind people the 'right' to drive cars.
Blind people have the right to drive.

They simply have to pass the attendant tests that go along with
getting a drivers license.

To my knowledge, the only tests involved in getting a marriage license
involve achieving the age of majority and, in some states, a blood
test.

If gay people can pass those tests, then why shouldn't they be allowed
to marry?
Post by lorad
It's still not a "right" - it's a statutory discrimination.
(would you give convicted criminals the 'right' to own machine guns? -
of course not)
Criminals forfeited their right to keep and bear arms by becoming
criminals.

Homosexuality isn't illegal. Therefore, no penalties should be
attached to being homosexual.
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Go for it.
Post by lorad
Hows that for 'winks'?
It's a free country.
Heh heh...
Rightards...
Being religious does not mean being 'rightist'... or even political...
When one lays down with dogs...
Post by lorad
Just as being athiest and homosexual does not need to equate to being
a fact-distorting, religion supressing  liar.
Religion suppressing...

Heh heh...

What religionists want is special consideration for their traditions
above all others when it comes to matters of state.

In the past they were successful in garnering such favor.

Now that those days are coming to an end, you scream suppression.

The fact is that you religionists can do what ever the hell you want
in your homes and your churches.

But, don't bring your bullshit into the public square.

I, as a non-Christian, don't like it there.

Heh heh...

Religious bigots...
John
2008-12-11 20:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Rubbish.
No, I spoke the truth.
If you deny truth, it's you that becomes a liar.
Post by SilentOtto
Marriage has legal and tax implications.
Yep, that too.
 But that addition in no way negates: "Marriage is not a 'right' -
it's a traditional societal convention based upon a Christian
sacrament
Do you mean only Christians can get married? That's just exactly what
you said. So Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc., can not
legally get married.
Post by lorad
that excludes homosexual participation."
Post by SilentOtto
Denying a group the right to marry whom they choose is discrimination.
That's true.
But it carries the same legal "discrimination" as, say, not allowing
blind people the 'right' to drive cars.
Apples to Pomegranetes. Not even close.
Post by lorad
It's still not a "right" - it's a statutory discrimination.
(would you give convicted criminals the 'right' to own machine guns? -
of course not)
Why not. Does the 2nd amendment say that the right to keep and bear
arms is limited to those who are not convicted criminals? Why should
gays not be given the right to marriage?
Post by lorad
Post by SilentOtto
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Go for it.
Post by lorad
Hows that for 'winks'?
It's a free country.
Heh heh...
Rightards...
Being religious does not mean being 'rightist'... or even political...
Just as being athiest and homosexual does not need to equate to being
a fact-distorting, religion supressing  liar.
Just as being homosexual does not equate with being "weird" or
"abnormal." And yet, Christians want to deny the right of marriage to
homosexuals for no good reason since marriage existed LONG before the
Christian or Jewish religion.


- Hide quoted text -
Post by lorad
- Show quoted text -
w***@easystreet.net
2008-12-11 05:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Marriage is and always has been a contract arising from the social,
economic and political needs to form alliances and had very little to
nothing to do with religion. Love or spirituality never entered into
it until the not-to-distant past. It is still a form of contract and
confers some legal obligations and benefits on parties to the
agreement, including responsibilities regarding financial support,
custody of children, decision-making in circumstances of ill health
and rights of inheritence. None of these rights and responsibilities
has anything to do with "sacrament," and cannot logically be withheld
from same-sex couples who desire to take on those obligations and
receive those benefits.
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Do you have evidence for these fires of damnation?

MLW
Post by lorad
Hows that for 'winks'?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 06:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Run that one by Gaius Julius Caesar, named dictator perpetuo by the
Roman senate, and his first, second, and third wives (each married a
year or two after the death of the previous one): Cornelia Cinnilla,
Pompeia, and Calpurnia Pisonis.

Caesar died in 44 BC (or BCE, depending on the notation you prefer),
making the idea that marriage is based upon a Christian sacrament
rather silly - not to mention that it would not have been prudent to
question his marital arrangements while he was alive unless separate
from Caesar by a very large and very well-trained army, one more
capable than any Caesar ran up against during his military career.
lorad
2008-12-11 06:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Run that one by Gaius Julius Caesar, named dictator perpetuo by the
Roman senate, and his first, second, and third wives (each married a
year or two after the death of the previous one): Cornelia Cinnilla,
Pompeia, and Calpurnia Pisonis.
Caesar died in 44 BC (or BCE, depending on the notation you prefer),
making the idea that marriage is based upon a Christian sacrament
rather silly - not to mention that it would not have been prudent to
question his marital arrangements while he was alive unless separate
from Caesar by a very large and very well-trained army, one more
capable than any Caesar ran up against during his military career.
Re-read your history..
Gaius Julius Caesar.. "in non partes est" was any sort of Christian.
He was a practicing roman pagan.. at best.

And the term Christian cannot apply.. until at least three hundred
years later when Constantine made Christianity the state religion.
Only from then on can you construe Christianity as being part of
standard european societal tradition... for the next 1700 years.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 06:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Run that one by Gaius Julius Caesar, named dictator perpetuo by the
Roman senate, and his first, second, and third wives (each married a
year or two after the death of the previous one): Cornelia Cinnilla,
Pompeia, and Calpurnia Pisonis.
Caesar died in 44 BC (or BCE, depending on the notation you prefer),
making the idea that marriage is based upon a Christian sacrament
rather silly - not to mention that it would not have been prudent to
question his marital arrangements while he was alive unless separate
from Caesar by a very large and very well-trained army, one more
capable than any Caesar ran up against during his military career.
Re-read your history..
Gaius Julius Caesar.. "in non partes est" was any sort of Christian.
He was a practicing roman pagan.. at best.
You idiot! The point was that he was obviously not a Christian,
contradicting your stupid claim about marriage. Oh, and too bad you
can't run your "at best" by him: the consequences might have been
rather amusing to anyone into shadenfreude. :-)
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
And the term Christian cannot apply.. until at least three hundred
years later when Constantine made Christianity the state religion.
Only from then on can you construe Christianity as being part of
standard european societal tradition... for the next 1700 years.
The point was that marriage is not specifically based upon a Christian
sacrament - otherwise we would disallow Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu
marriages, not to mention marriages between atheists. The custom
predated Christianity, as the example I gave you showed.
lorad
2008-12-11 06:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Run that one by Gaius Julius Caesar, named dictator perpetuo by the
Roman senate, and his first, second, and third wives (each married a
year or two after the death of the previous one): Cornelia Cinnilla,
Pompeia, and Calpurnia Pisonis.
Caesar died in 44 BC (or BCE, depending on the notation you prefer),
making the idea that marriage is based upon a Christian sacrament
rather silly - not to mention that it would not have been prudent to
question his marital arrangements while he was alive unless separate
from Caesar by a very large and very well-trained army, one more
capable than any Caesar ran up against during his military career.
Re-read your history..
Gaius Julius Caesar.. "in non partes est" was any sort of Christian.
He was a practicing roman pagan.. at best.
You idiot!
You genetic defective, yes?
Post by Bill Z.
The point was that he was obviously not a Christian,
That's obvious. So why does your dumbass seek to assign 1700 years of
Christian european cultural tradition to a roman pagan?
Post by Bill Z.
contradicting your stupid claim about marriage.  
You have contradicted nothing - other than yourself.
Post by Bill Z.
Oh, and too bad you
can't run your "at best" by him: the consequences might have been
rather amusing to anyone into shadenfreude. :-)
Please translate your mumblings.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
And the term Christian cannot apply.. until at least three hundred
years later when Constantine made Christianity the state religion.
Only from then on can you construe Christianity as being part of
standard european societal tradition... for the next 1700 years.
The point was that marriage is not specifically based upon a Christian
sacrament - otherwise we would disallow Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu
marriages, not to mention marriages between atheists.  
Actually the point is that the idea of 'homosexual marrige'
contradicts 1700 years of european societal tradition - that was based
upon 1700 years of incorporated Christian belief. As 'homosexual
marriage' was not part of that 1700 year long societal tradition (nor
laws) it is a difficult notion for most of society to accept.
Post by Bill Z.
The custom
predated Christianity, as the example I gave you showed.
Whatever other non-Christian/non-American examples that you would like
to toss into the hopper.. don't matter.
We were talking about US society.. a society based upon a majority
population acceptance of Christian beliefs.
..which remain operative today.

PS: Homosexual 'civil unions' should be enough for gay activists..
pressing for 'marriage' status is a drama-queen non-starter.
Bill Z.
2008-12-11 07:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lorad
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Run that one by Gaius Julius Caesar, named dictator perpetuo by the
Roman senate, and his first, second, and third wives (each married a
year or two after the death of the previous one): Cornelia Cinnilla,
Pompeia, and Calpurnia Pisonis.
Caesar died in 44 BC (or BCE, depending on the notation you prefer),
making the idea that marriage is based upon a Christian sacrament
rather silly - not to mention that it would not have been prudent to
question his marital arrangements while he was alive unless separate
from Caesar by a very large and very well-trained army, one more
capable than any Caesar ran up against during his military career.
Re-read your history..
Gaius Julius Caesar.. "in non partes est" was any sort of Christian.
He was a practicing roman pagan.. at best.
You idiot!
You genetic defective, yes?
Post by Bill Z.
The point was that he was obviously not a Christian,
That's obvious. So why does your dumbass seek to assign 1700 years of
Christian european cultural tradition to a roman pagan?
What's obvious is that your intellectual abilities are too limited to
even read a full sentence before replying.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
contradicting your stupid claim about marriage.  
You have contradicted nothing - other than yourself.
Liar.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
The point was that marriage is not specifically based upon a Christian
sacrament - otherwise we would disallow Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu
marriages, not to mention marriages between atheists.  
Actually the point is that the idea of 'homosexual marrige'
contradicts 1700 years of european societal tradition - that was based
upon 1700 years of incorporated Christian belief. As 'homosexual
marriage' was not part of that 1700 year long societal tradition (nor
laws) it is a difficult notion for most of society to accept.
That's not what you said, moron. You said that marriage was "a
traditional societal convention based upon a Christian sacrament
that excludes homosexual participation", and the first part of
that statement is simply false - marriage predates Christianity -
making your subordinate clause irrelevant.
Post by lorad
Post by Bill Z.
The custom predated Christianity, as the example I gave you showed.
Whatever other non-Christian/non-American examples that you would
like to toss into the hopper.. don't matter. We were talking about
US society.. a society based upon a majority population acceptance
of Christian beliefs. ..which remain operative today.
Not according to the 1st Amendment.
Post by lorad
PS: Homosexual 'civil unions' should be enough for gay activists..
pressing for 'marriage' status is a drama-queen non-starter.
Irrelevant - the issue was your claim about marriage being specifically
a Christian thing.
alohacyberian
2008-12-11 17:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Hows that for 'winks'?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hmmm your mind harbors some interesting christian precepts.

Were you molested by yourself?
W***@Ireland.com
2008-12-12 00:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Perfect - the Dutch will take a look at it, smile, and then get on
with their lives. They're not as uptight as the poor white trash,
grasping their guns as they're praising their lord. After a good
giggle they will probably stop at one of the local "coffee shops",
smoke a joint, and have another good giggle. Most folks in this world
really don't care about things that don't directly affect their lives.
Two big exceptions being Fundie Xtians and Fundie Muslims.
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
Homosexuals already have 'equal rights'.
Marriage is not a 'right' - it's a traditional societal convention
based upon a Christian sacrament that excludes homosexual
participation.
Ummmm ....... marriage was around a whole helluva lot sooner than your
Christian imitation of a Jewish tradition which imitated a pagan
ritual that had been in place since Og hit Zog over her head. How dare
you try to hijack something that has .... oops...... the Xtians have
already hijacked Xmas, Easter, and a whole helluva lot more pagan and
Judaic traditions. Oh, and btw, there are many Christian churches that
will perform same-sex marriages. Now WWJD (if he ever existed) - he'd
chide all the faux-Xtians for their bigotry and go to the wedding like
he did at Cana. He might even spin a few Abba records, and lip sync
the lyrics with the drag queens.
Post by lorad
Post by s***@gmail.com
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Provocatives games?
Hows about a homosexual nativity scene showing pissed-off angels
hurling the fire of damnation onto two Sodomites who are holding a
purchased korean baby captive?
Hows that for 'winks'?
Perfect - now that's a excellent answer from a representative of
modern Christianity. Would you like to burn a few witches while you're
at it? Maybe stone an adulterer or two on the side? Sheesh!

WB Yeats
Patriot Games
2008-12-11 16:03:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
The tragedy of balding men with long hair
2008-12-11 16:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patriot Games
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
Hmmmmm, a budding Nazi in our midst. Ahhh, just kidding, Patriot. I
know you're a full blown Nazi.
Patriot Games
2008-12-11 20:00:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:25:28 -0800 (PST), The tragedy of balding men
Post by The tragedy of balding men with long hair
Post by Patriot Games
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
Hmmmmm, a budding Nazi in our midst. Ahhh, just kidding, Patriot. I
know you're a full blown Nazi.
I have bever been blown by a Nazi.

You must be referring to every single person Barney Franks has ever
met.
Tom Sr.
2008-12-12 00:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patriot Games
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:25:28 -0800 (PST), The tragedy of balding men
Post by Patriot Games
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
-
Hmmmmm, a budding Nazi in our midst.  Ahhh, just kidding, Patriot.  I
know you're a full blown Nazi.
-
I have bever been blown by a Nazi.
Of course you are, Games.

From your blantant support of white nationalism to your vicious hatred
of gay people, you fit oerfectly into the Neo-Nazi movement in America
today.

Your mind is so twisted and warped by your bitter hatred that you, Bob
Milby Jr., delusionally *believe* yourself to be a "Patriotic
American" and so are unable to see the obvious reality of the Neo-Nazi
political beliefs you truly hold.

-Tom Sr.
Tom Sr.
2008-12-12 19:16:09 UTC
Permalink
[You] *believe* yourself to be a "Patriotic American"...
...and you are not, Bobby.
--
The FACTS are what they are.
The FACTS, as can be found in all your tens-of-thousands of posts,
PROVE beyond any *reasonable* doubt you are a American Neo-Nazi, Bob
Milby Jr.
I'm white, most of America is white - you aren't.
Cite proof for either or demonstrate once again you are a PROVEN LIAR.

YOU are ORDER to do so WITHIN 24 HOURS of this posting or prove to us
all YOU ARE LYING, "PATRIOT GAMES"!!

(Since you just *love* to endlessly make such demands of others in
your Usenet posts, Bob Jr., I am sure you don't want to show us all
(again) you are a hypocrite as well as a liar.)
I'm heterosexual, most of America is heterosexual - you aren't!
Cite proof for either or demonstrate once again you are a PROVEN LIAR.

YOU are ORDER to do so WITHIN 24 HOURS of this posting or prove to us
all YOU ARE LYING!!!

(Since you just *love* to constantly make such demands of others in
your Usenet posts, Nazi Games, I am sure you don't want to show us all
(once more) you are a proven hypocrite as well as a proven liar.)
Case closed.
You have NO case, because, Bob Milby Jr. of Florida, you have NOTHING
other than your hate and willful ignorance.

-Tom Sr.
SilentOtto
2008-12-11 21:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patriot Games
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
Go ahead and try Princess.

See what happens.

Heh heh...

Rightard closet queers.
Tom Sr.
2008-12-12 00:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patriot Games
Post by s***@gmail.com
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
--
Maybe if they were exterminated we wouldn't be bothered with them.
Guys just like you, Bob Milby Jr., tried that by murdering gay people,
along with Jewish people, trade unionists, the disabled, Roma
(Gypsies), Slavic people, prisoners of war, Socialists, Protestant
pastors, Catholic priests, black people, Jehovah's Witnesses, during
Nazi Germany.

11 MILLION died in all because of hate-filled people *just* like you,
Milby Jr.

All those groups all still here and their peoples alive today.

It didn't work then and it wouldn't work now, Nazi Games.

-Tom Sr.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 16:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
[...]
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Well, considering this provocation is taking place in the Netherlands,
which already has queer marriage, then your stupid defend-the-assholes
supposition is just bullshit.

But thanks very much for admitting that queers want something *MORE*
than equality. What they want is to be provocative [ahem] cocksuckers,
and to force the rest of society to "celebrate" their perversion.
Wayne
2008-12-11 16:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
[...]
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Well, considering this provocation is taking place in the Netherlands,
which already has queer marriage, then your stupid defend-the-assholes
supposition is just bullshit.
But thanks very much for admitting that queers want something *MORE* than
equality. What they want is to be provocative [ahem] cocksuckers, and to
force the rest of society to "celebrate" their perversion.
-
LOL. A spot on, succinct and accurate analysis.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-11 16:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
[...]
Maybe if the homosexuals were given equal rights - such as in marriage
- they wouldn't feel the need to play these provocative games.
Well, considering this provocation is taking place in the Netherlands,
which already has queer marriage, then your stupid defend-the-assholes
supposition is just bullshit.
But thanks very much for admitting that queers want something *MORE* than
equality. What they want is to be provocative [ahem] cocksuckers, and to
force the rest of society to "celebrate" their perversion.
-
LOL. A spot on, succinct and accurate analysis.
What's really funny, in a pathetic sort of way, is that the poster ("don
shaffer", I guess) was trying to defend queers' attempts to outrage the
rest of society by pointing to an incident that is *gratuitously*
outrageous - thereby confirming that queers like to outrage people just
because it pleases them.
The tragedy of balding men with long hair
2008-12-11 06:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Frank van Dalen, ProGay chairman, told reporters his group is hosting the
event to boost "choices for homosexual men and women" during Christmas week.
"Right now, there's not much to do," he said.
The celebration will promote homosexuality and religion, van Dalen said.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay" manger
scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"Christmas is about more than religion, it's also about love and families,
not to mention shopping," he said. "Two men or two women can form a family
too these days, even one with a child."
The Netherlands legalized same-sex unions in 2001, and "gays" are allowed to
adopt. The Dutch Cabinet participated in an Amsterdam "gay" pride boat
parade Aug. 2. Van Dalen attended the event and said he was very pleased
with "Christian participation." Several masses were held on that day.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Thank you Wayne for your knuckle-dragging plea for censorship. Burn
any books lately?
morgan mair fheal
2008-12-11 07:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
about 2000 years ago there was this guy who hanged out
with whores gypsies tramps and thieves
in country run by all kinds polythetical pagans

youre not pure in heart by the people around oyu
youre pure in heart by your own decisions

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
m***@yahoo.com
2008-12-12 06:22:31 UTC
Permalink
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Post by Wayne
ever wonder why people get short tempered with homosexuals?
Manger scene to feature 2 Josephs, 2 Marys at homosexual festival
Posted: December 08, 2008
9:31 pm Eastern
A "gay" Dutch group has plans to hijack a traditionally Christian holiday by
hosting its own "Pink Christmas" festival - complete with church services
and a homosexual Nativity featuring two Josephs and two Marys.
Amsterdam's ProGay will put on a 10-day festival with parties, an open-air
market, homosexual movies and ice skating. The group has even scheduled
church services for Christmas day, the Associated Press reports.
Frank van Dalen, ProGay chairman, told reporters his group is hosting the
event to boost "choices for homosexual men and women" during Christmas week.
"Right now, there's not much to do," he said.
The celebration will promote homosexuality and religion, van Dalen said.
However, an organization named Christians for Truth claims the "gay" manger
scene "mocks the core concepts of evangelism."
"By putting Joseph and Mary down as homosexuals, a cracked human fantasy is
being tacked on to history from the Bible," the group said in a statement.
The live Nativity is scheduled to begin Dec. 21. Van Dalen told the AP that
Christians should not take offense to the festival, because it is only
intended to be a "wink" at heterosexual assumptions and promote Amsterdam as
a "gay" capital.
"Christmas is about more than religion, it's also about love and families,
not to mention shopping," he said. "Two men or two women can form a family
too these days, even one with a child."
The Netherlands legalized same-sex unions in 2001, and "gays" are allowed to
adopt. The Dutch Cabinet participated in an Amsterdam "gay" pride boat
parade Aug. 2. Van Dalen attended the event and said he was very pleased
with "Christian participation." Several masses were held on that day.
"So far Orthodox Christians believed in two separate worlds, as if
homosexuality is not part of their own closed society," van Dalen said.
"This boat proves them wrong."
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 07:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
m***@yahoo.com
2008-12-12 07:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
.
You're joking right?

Christmas has been anally gang raped by materialism and commercialism.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 08:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
.
You're joking right?
No, of course not. Your comment was trite and unoriginal. I heard it
back in the early 1960s, and it was trite and unoriginal then.
n***@millions.com
2008-12-12 17:29:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.

DCI
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 18:07:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
n***@millions.com
2008-12-12 20:23:29 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:07:14 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
And we also decorate a tree to pay homage to those pagans of long ago.
Those pagans, lacking scientic methods, did all kinds of stuff to get
the sun to come back. Today we just pay money to an outfit to replace
the energy lost due to the solstice, and the politicians tax the folks
for that lil' bit of modern day paganism(s).

DCI
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 20:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions.com
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:07:14 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
And we also decorate a tree to pay homage to those pagans of long ago.
Those pagans, lacking scientic methods, did all kinds of stuff to get
the sun to come back. Today we just pay money to an outfit to replace
the energy lost due to the solstice, and the politicians tax the folks
for that lil' bit of modern day paganism(s).
DCI
Those pagans got a lot of things right, especially partying.
mewhoisme
2008-12-12 20:45:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions.com
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:07:14 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries.  It's crap.  Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
And we also decorate a tree to pay homage to those pagans of long ago.
Those pagans, lacking scientic methods, did all kinds of stuff to get
the sun to come back. Today we just pay money to an outfit to replace
the energy lost due to the solstice, and the politicians tax the folks
for that lil' bit of modern day paganism(s).
DCI
Those pagans got a lot of things right, especially partying.-
SHO "NUFF!

You ain't half-bad even if we did disagree about the gay manger scene
(which I thought was an over the top stupid thing to do). But the
"historically inaccurate" thing was lame.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 22:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by mewhoisme
Post by n***@millions.com
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:07:14 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
And we also decorate a tree to pay homage to those pagans of long ago.
Those pagans, lacking scientic methods, did all kinds of stuff to get
the sun to come back. Today we just pay money to an outfit to replace
the energy lost due to the solstice, and the politicians tax the folks
for that lil' bit of modern day paganism(s).
DCI
Those pagans got a lot of things right, especially partying.-
SHO "NUFF!
You ain't half-bad even if we did disagree about the gay manger scene
(which I thought was an over the top stupid thing to do). But the
"historically inaccurate" thing was lame.
Well, regardless of whether there were in fact a historical Joseph and
Mary, or if they were just figures in some cultural myth, there were
exactly one of each.
mewhoisme
2008-12-12 20:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries.  It's crap.  Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
Yup. I enjoy the season and celebrate it the best way I can--and
don't let religion interfere in my celebration of my favorite and most
spiritual holiday. (I don't worry about Gays at this time of year
either--or at any other time, for that matter.)
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 21:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by mewhoisme
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
Yup. I enjoy the season and celebrate it the best way I can--and
don't let religion interfere in my celebration of my favorite and most
spiritual holiday. (I don't worry about Gays at this time of year
either--or at any other time, for that matter.)
Same for me, except that Christmas isn't my favorite holiday, although I
enjoy it just fine.
Rudy Canoza
2008-12-12 18:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@millions.com
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 -0800, Rudy Canoza
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by m***@yahoo.com
The only things to hijack Christmas is materialism and commercialism.
Trite and unoriginal.
We enjoy Christmas to the max around our home in good times or bad.
This whiny lament about Christmas having been "hijacked" by "materialism
and commercialism" has been around for many decades, probably even
centuries. It's crap. Any religious meaning to Christmas was grafted
onto the pagan winter solstice party long ago.
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