Still driving the bus

[Stan de SD]

Do you remember the illegal immigrant from Mexico who was driving a bus that
burst into flames and killed 23 nursing home patients who were evacuating
Hurricane Rita last year in Houston?


His name is Juan Robles Gutierrez and he is a Mexican national, one of the
millions who have sneaked across our border and taken a job so that he can
send his income back to Monterey, where his wife and daughter live. In his
case, he waded across the Rio Grande and began working for Global Limo, the
company that owned the bus that burst into flames on September 23, 2005,
burning 23 passengers alive.


Robles was arrested after the Dallas County Sheriff said that the evidence
collected indicated that the bus driver's actions contributed to the 23
deaths.


Fast forward to today. I'd like to give you a pop quiz about Mr. Robles. If
you answer correctly, you will get an A.


Since Robles was arrested, where is he today? Is he:


A) Sitting in jail;

B) Deported to Mexico;

C) Living freely as a resident of the United States and still driving a
bus.


After 23 horrific deaths, there surely couldn't be any way that "C" would be
the correct answer, right? Well, welcome to 2006 America, where in the world
of illegal immigration, right means wrong, up means down, and illegal means
hero.


It turns out that the evidence collected by the Dallas County Sheriff's
Department must not have been enough to hold Juan Robles Gutierrez
responsible for the nursing home patients deaths. In fact, it is believed
that a mechanical failure of the brakes led to the fire which ignited the
bus.


But that wouldn't exonerate Robles from his illegal actions that brought him
to the United States and placed him behind the wheel of that bus, would it?


You bet your sweet green card it would. And did.


After he was cleared of the charges, he was ordered to stay in the Houston
area in order to testify in the trial of the bus company owner. He didn't
really like that too much. He preferred to live in Laredo, Texas, where he
could be closer to his wife and daughter who live in Monterey, Mexico. So he
went to an immigration official and was allowed to move to Laredo.

Then, our brilliant "system" granted him a work visa. After all, his wife
and daughter have bills to pay in Monterey!


After Robles got his wish to live in the American city he wanted, he began
itching to drive a bus again. No problemo, amigo. A Texas-based bus company
hired him and he now cheerfully makes the 8 hour drive between Laredo and
Dallas on a daily basis behind the wheel of yet another bus.


Perhaps his passengers these days should be advised to carry a fire
extinguisher with them.


What's perhaps the most shocking aspect of this story is how little the news
media has paid attention to it. This guy goes from being the illegal
immigrant from Mexico who was arrested for the deaths of 23 elderly patients
on his bus to just another working-class stiff, holding down a steady paying
job, a job that many Americans would undoubtedly love to have.


There are so many outrages in this story, I don't even know where to begin.
Maybe we can start with his "request" to move to Laredo to be closer to his
family in Mexico. If I were the immigration judge, I'd have the perfect
solution. You want to be close to your family, Mr. Robles? Heck, how about
your home in Monterey, Mexico? Close enough?


But while the American news media might not be paying attention to this
story, I'll bet the illegals are observing. After all, if a Mexican illegal
can still keep residency in America and even have the same job he was doing
when his bus burned up 23 people, how serious could the United States really
be about stopping illegal immigration?


I hope you passed the quiz and received an "A." When it comes to combating
illegal immigration, the United States continues to get a well-deserved "F."

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MikeGallagher/2006/09/29/still_driving_the_bus

[banyan]

The bus company are the ones whose equipment caught on fire. Who was
behind the wheel at the time doesn't matter. As an employee, he is the
agent of the company, who are the liable parties in this. Employees who
are involved in a tort while acting in a reasonable manner are
indemnified by their employers. (At least, that's the way it works in
Canadian and British common law.)

Aside from which, they hired the man in question, Juan Robles Gutierrez,
at, I am guessing, way less than they could get away with paying a real
live 'mercan. I can only assume that Global hired him due to the
combination of his qualifications and his terms being the most
attractive to them of the applicants they had to choose from. That is
to say, he could drive and he would do so cheaply. If, as you say, many
people would have loved to take the job, why didn't they?

All that said, why are you ranting about Gutierrez? If you're actually
outraged about the accident of 9/23/05, you should be busy picketing and
arranging class action lawsuits of Global Limo on behalf of the bereaved
families of the deceased. However, you aren't, which leads me to the
only remaining conclusion -- you are just using the 23 cadavers to
forward the white supremacist agenda you are peddling.

A footnote: in his new job, you can't even say that he's an illegal
worker, since you mentioned that he possesses a valid work visa.

Stan de SD wrote:
... Global Limo, the

Post by Stan de SD
company that owned the bus that burst into flames on September 23, 2005,
burning 23 passengers alive.

[Stan de SD]

Post by banyan
The bus company are the ones whose equipment caught on fire. Who was
behind the wheel at the time doesn't matter. As an employee, he is the
agent of the company, who are the liable parties in this. Employees who
are involved in a tort while acting in a reasonable manner are
indemnified by their employers. (At least, that's the way it works in
Canadian and British common law.)
Aside from which, they hired the man in question, Juan Robles Gutierrez,
at, I am guessing, way less than they could get away with paying a real
live 'mercan. I can only assume that Global hired him due to the
combination of his qualifications and his terms being the most
attractive to them of the applicants they had to choose from. That is
to say, he could drive and he would do so cheaply. If, as you say, many
people would have loved to take the job, why didn't they?
All that said, why are you ranting about Gutierrez? If you're actually
outraged about the accident of 9/23/05, you should be busy picketing and
arranging class action lawsuits of Global Limo on behalf of the bereaved
families of the deceased.
However, you aren't, which leads me to the
only remaining conclusion -- you are just using the 23 cadavers to
forward the white supremacist agenda you are peddling.

Do you have any evidence from any of my postings in Usenet to back up your
assertion that I am pushing a "white supremacist" or racist agenda? Or do
you simply have your head so far up the ass of your own political
correctness that you can't understand that reasonable people might have
questions about a few things? For example: how does an illegal get a
driver's license with the necessary endorsements to own a bus, and how does
he retain it after being involved in an accident with 23 deaths? Is there no
review process for the state where he was issued the license? If so, how was
he allowed to KEEP his license if an investigation showed that he was
illegal?

Post by banyan
A footnote: in his new job, you can't even say that he's an illegal
worker, since you mentioned that he possesses a valid work visa.

Nice try, but according to the story, the work visa was provided AFTER the
fact: - he was an illegal at the time he was arrested..

[Spartakus]

[...]

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
All that said, why are you ranting about Gutierrez? If you're actually
outraged about the accident of 9/23/05, you should be busy picketing
and arranging class action lawsuits of Global Limo on behalf of the
bereaved families of the deceased.
However, you aren't, which leads me to the only remaining conclusion
-- you are just using the 23 cadavers to forward the white supremacist
agenda you are peddling.

Do you have any evidence from any of my postings in Usenet to back up
your assertion that I am pushing a "white supremacist" or racist agenda?
Or do you simply have your head so far up the ass of your own political
correctness that you can't understand that reasonable people might have
questions about a few things?

Oh please, this isn't the first time you've gone off the rails about
minorities, so your disengenuous "who me?" schtick is a little
transparent. The whole jihad against illegal immigrants is rooted in
racism. How many people of color have you seen manning the barricades
as minutemen?

Let me get to the heart of the matter by asking another question: would
you have bothered to post the story of this tragedy if the driver had
been a white American citizen?

Post by Stan de SD
For example: how does an illegal get a driver's license with the necessary
endorsements to own a bus, and how does he retain it after being involved
in an accident with 23 deaths?

He didn't own the bus that killed those 23 people. That bus was the
property of Global Limo.

Post by Stan de SD
Is there no review process for the state where he was issued the license?

There's no evidence that Gutierrez was negligent, but in answer to your
question, I guess anything is possible in Texas.

Post by Stan de SD
If so, how was he allowed to KEEP his license if an investigation
showed that he was illegal?

My guess is that there is no law that strips people of licenses and
certifications if it is learned that they are in the country illegally.

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
A footnote: in his new job, you can't even say that he's an illegal
worker, since you mentioned that he possesses a valid work visa.

Nice try, but according to the story, the work visa was provided AFTER the
fact: - he was an illegal at the time he was arrested..

And what relevance is his immigrant status regarding the facts
surrounding that tragedy?

[j***@.]

Post by Spartakus
[...]

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
All that said, why are you ranting about Gutierrez? If you're actually
outraged about the accident of 9/23/05, you should be busy picketing
and arranging class action lawsuits of Global Limo on behalf of the
bereaved families of the deceased.
However, you aren't, which leads me to the only remaining conclusion
-- you are just using the 23 cadavers to forward the white supremacist
agenda you are peddling.

Do you have any evidence from any of my postings in Usenet to back up
your assertion that I am pushing a "white supremacist" or racist agenda?
Or do you simply have your head so far up the ass of your own political
correctness that you can't understand that reasonable people might have
questions about a few things?

Oh please, this isn't the first time you've gone off the rails about
minorities, so your disengenuous "who me?" schtick is a little
transparent. The whole jihad against illegal immigrants is rooted in
racism. How many people of color have you seen manning the barricades
as minutemen?
Let me get to the heart of the matter by asking another question: would
you have bothered to post the story of this tragedy if the driver had
been a white American citizen?

Post by Stan de SD
For example: how does an illegal get a driver's license with the necessary
endorsements to own a bus, and how does he retain it after being involved
in an accident with 23 deaths?

He didn't own the bus that killed those 23 people. That bus was the
property of Global Limo.

Post by Stan de SD
Is there no review process for the state where he was issued the license?

There's no evidence that Gutierrez was negligent, but in answer to your
question, I guess anything is possible in Texas.

Post by Stan de SD
If so, how was he allowed to KEEP his license if an investigation
showed that he was illegal?

My guess is that there is no law that strips people of licenses and
certifications if it is learned that they are in the country illegally.

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
A footnote: in his new job, you can't even say that he's an illegal
worker, since you mentioned that he possesses a valid work visa.

Nice try, but according to the story, the work visa was provided AFTER the
fact: - he was an illegal at the time he was arrested..

And what relevance is his immigrant status regarding the facts
surrounding that tragedy?

He shouldn't have been in this country, and a qualified American
citizens should have been driving the bus.

[Spartakus]

Post by j***@.

Post by Spartakus
And what relevance is his immigrant status regarding the facts
surrounding that tragedy?

He shouldn't have been in this country,

Agreed. But it was the negligence of Global Limo that killed those
people, not his being here.

Post by j***@.
and a qualified American citizens should have been driving the bus.

Oh, a CITIZEN? Not a resident alien with a work visa? Those 23 people
still would have died. So, again, what is the relevance of Gutierrez's
immigrant status?

[Stan de SD]

Post by Spartakus

Post by j***@.

Post by Spartakus
And what relevance is his immigrant status regarding the facts
surrounding that tragedy?

He shouldn't have been in this country,

Agreed. But it was the negligence of Global Limo that killed those
people, not his being here.

Post by j***@.
and a qualified American citizens should have been driving the bus.

Oh, a CITIZEN? Not a resident alien with a work visa?

The work visa came AFTER the fatal crash, moron. What type of message do you
think that sends to other people who might try to do the same thing?

[banyan]

Post by Stan de SD
The work visa came AFTER the fatal crash, moron. What type of message do you
think that sends to other people who might try to do the same thing?

Do what? Get a job with a company whose buses catch on fire?

[j***@.]

Post by banyan

Post by Stan de SD
The work visa came AFTER the fatal crash, moron. What type of message do you
think that sends to other people who might try to do the same thing?

Do what? Get a job with a company whose buses catch on fire?

Get a job illegally and then be awarded a work visa.

[Stan de SD]

Post by Spartakus
[...]

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
All that said, why are you ranting about Gutierrez? If you're actually
outraged about the accident of 9/23/05, you should be busy picketing
and arranging class action lawsuits of Global Limo on behalf of the
bereaved families of the deceased.
However, you aren't, which leads me to the only remaining conclusion
-- you are just using the 23 cadavers to forward the white supremacist
agenda you are peddling.

Do you have any evidence from any of my postings in Usenet to back up
your assertion that I am pushing a "white supremacist" or racist agenda?
Or do you simply have your head so far up the ass of your own political
correctness that you can't understand that reasonable people might have
questions about a few things?

Oh please, this isn't the first time you've gone off the rails about
minorities, so your disengenuous "who me?" schtick is a little
transparent.

Show me where I condemn people based on their race and ethnicity. Can you?
Sources? Cites?

Post by Spartakus
The whole jihad against illegal immigrants is rooted in
racism.

Nice try using the old race smear. I guess it's a lot easier condemning
everyone who wants to enforce our immigration laws as "racist" than present
a reasoned argument as to why we should just let people from other nations
flood into our country, huh?

Post by Spartakus
How many people of color have you seen manning the barricades
as minutemen?

Her name throws people. The vision and voice behind the Illinois Minuteman
Project and its suburban mobilization is, in fact, Hispanic. Rosanna Pulido
contends her heritage and her gender - she's the only woman to head a state
Minuteman branch - make her an effective leader for those who say illegal
immigration must be thwarted, borders sealed and laws enforced. So, too, do
her ethnic roots confound immigrant activists who wonder why the
granddaughter of a Mexican farmer and a Christian who once ministered to
Mexico's poor would put security over solidarity.
http://hispanictips.com/2006/08/31/hispanic-voice-behind-illinois-minuteman-project/

A CAPITOL BLOG by TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE AARON PENA

Ten percent of the Minutemen's 8,000 members are Hispanic, according to Al
Garza. If you remember Al Garza is the former Texas president of the
Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. He is now the group's second-in-command, to
one of the nation's most prominent Hispanic anti-immigration activists.
Garza is featured in a Houston Chronicle story about Hispanic Minutemen and
is quoted as saying:


"This has nothing to do with race," said Garza, who was born in
Raymondville in South Texas. "Anyone that has any racial agenda is not
wanted in our group."

Much like the multiple perspectives of Tejanos during the Texas
Revolution, today's Tejanos, like other Americans, have multiple
perspectives on the current question of immigration reform. Some people from
both sides of this highly polarized issue always hate when I highlight these
differences. My feeling is that it is better to be knowledgeable than
ignorant on the differences and subtleties in this debate.
http://acapitolblog.blogspot.com/2006/04/hispanic-minutemen.html

May 5, 2006 - The immigration debate heated up at a church on Chicago's
Northwest Side Thursday night. In the middle of the shouting match were the
Illinois Minutemen, a group against illegal immigration. The head of that
group is no stranger to public protest.
The founder of the Illinois Minutemen is a woman. Her name is Rosanna
Pulido, and even though she lives in Rockford, she spends much of her free
time in metro Chicago stirring up the melting pot of immigration. The
Minutemen want illegal immigrants out and US borders secured so more can't
get in.
You may have seen Pulido on the ABC7 news Thursday night in a volatile
immigration face-off on the northwest side. What was supposed to be a
neighborhood immigration discussion became a yelling contest when only the
Illinois Minutemen showed up, leading into the war of words by the group's
founder, the daughter of Mexican-American Parents.

"I accepted the invitation. So did the other side. And not last week did
they pull out, they pulled out last night. I think that is inconsiderate,"
said Pulido.

Pulido, who turns 50 next week, was raised in Wrigleyville, and now runs a
senior citizen transportation service. A year ago, she spent a few days with
national Minutemen along the Arizona-Mexico border that has become a sieve
for illegal immigrants. The former 9-1-1 operator returned home to form the
Illinois Minutemen, aimed at keeping Chicago from becoming "a sanctuary
city."

"If you read the Minutemen's standard operating procedures, we're courteous
with everyone, we cooperate with all law enforcement and we don't
discriminate against anyone for any reason. And if you violate those
procedures, you're not a Minuteman anymore," Pulido said.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=4147354

Raymond Herrera, an official spokesman for Jim Gilchrist's Minuteman Project
appeared on Univision's Cristina Show on September 18th. The program focused
on immigration; specifically, the abuses Mexicans face after they sneak into
the United States. The program hyped the fact that Raymond is of Mexican
descent and, as a Minuteman, accuse him of betraying his own blood.
Actually, Raymond is a courageous American patriot and veteran who is
unwaivering in his belief that illegal immigrants in this country should be
deported because they are damaging our nation. We talked with Raymond before
the broadcast. He says the producer of the show wanted him to "go after" his
opponents in a most vigorous manner and to even attack Cristina herself.
Presumably, the other guests were similarly briefed. Although serious issues
are discussed, the format may remind viewers of The Jerry Springer Show,
where guests are quite animated and on the verge of physically attacking
each other.

http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp?contentID=99

My name is Raymond Herrera, I am an American Carpenter and also an American
General Contractor, out of work and out of business in America's booming
construction industry.

As an American tradesman, 34 years experience as a carpenter, a licensed
General Contractor in Arizona and California, both failed business ventures
due to the lack of American tradesmen, not for the lack of work in America.

They failed not because I lacked trade skills, a strong work ethic, business
knowledge, or the lack of work in America's construction industry. Rather
they failed because of Illegal Immigration and the Immoral American
Developers and Contractors, who hire vast numbers of Illegal Mexican
Immigrants rather than their fellow American workers.

http://www.unitedstates.fm/ray.htm

Post by Spartakus
Let me get to the heart of the matter by asking another question: would
you have bothered to post the story of this tragedy if the driver had
been a white American citizen?

I wouldn't have based in immigration-related NG's if he was a CITIZEN. Race
had nothing to do with it...

Post by Spartakus

Post by Stan de SD
For example: how does an illegal get a driver's license with the necessary
endorsements to own a bus, and how does he retain it after being involved
in an accident with 23 deaths?

He didn't own the bus that killed those 23 people. That bus was the
property of Global Limo.

You're avoiding the issue, you left-wing coward: how does an illegal get a
driver's license in the first place? Secondly, how does he get hired AGAIN
when he was already involved in one multiple fatality crash? Does the
driver assume NO liability for checking to make sure the piece of equipment
he is operating is safe?

Post by Spartakus

Post by Stan de SD
Is there no review process for the state where he was issued the license?

There's no evidence that Gutierrez was negligent, but in answer to your
question, I guess anything is possible in Texas.

Post by Stan de SD
If so, how was he allowed to KEEP his license if an investigation
showed that he was illegal?

My guess is that there is no law that strips people of licenses and
certifications if it is learned that they are in the country illegally.

Which is my point to begin with - apparently you see nothing wrong with
that... :O(

Post by Spartakus

Post by Stan de SD

Post by banyan
A footnote: in his new job, you can't even say that he's an illegal
worker, since you mentioned that he possesses a valid work visa.

Nice try, but according to the story, the work visa was provided AFTER the
fact: - he was an illegal at the time he was arrested..

And what relevance is his immigrant status regarding the facts
surrounding that tragedy?

What part of ILLEGAL do you NOT understand, dipstick?