Discussion:
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His Plans
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r***@theoven.net
2009-01-22 19:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans

By Russ Baker

Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.

As George W. Bush leaves office and Barack Obama takes over, we are in
danger of missing the opportunity for change our new president has
promised -- unless we come to grips with what the great historian and
Librarian of Congress Daniel Boorstin called our "hidden history," not
just of the past eight years but of the past half-century and more.

President Obama will face a staggering array of challenges, most, if
not all, of which stem from the policies of Bush. But efforts at
reform will fall short if we fail to probe and confront the powerful
forces that wanted this disastrous administration in the White House
in the first place -- and that remain ready and able to maintain their
influence behind the scenes today.

Like most people, I took the failings of George W. Bush at face value:
an inattentive, poorly prepared man full of hubris, who committed
colossal blunders as a result. Then I spent five years researching my
new book, Family of Secrets and came to see that the origins go much
deeper. This backstory is getting almost no attention in the
talking-heads debate over the Bush legacy. Yet it will continue to
play, affecting our country and our lives, long after Bush leaves
office.

A more profound explanation for the rise of George W. Bush came as I
studied the concerted effort to convince the public that he was
independent of, and often in disagreement with, his father. The reason
for this, it turned out, was that exactly the opposite was true. W.
may have been bumptious where his father was discreet, but in fact the
son hewed closely to a playbook that guided his father and even his
grandfather.

Over much of the last century, the Bushes have been serving the aims
of a very narrow segment from within America's wealthiest interests
and families -- typically through involvement in the most anti-New
Deal investment banking circles, in the creation of a civilian
intelligence service after World War II, and in some of that service's
most secretive and still-unacknowledged operations.

Through declassified documents and interviews, I unearthed evidence
that George W. Bush's father, the 41st president of the United States,
had been working for the intelligence services no less than two
decades before he was named CIA director in 1976. Time and again, Bush
41 and his allies have participated in clandestine operations to force
presidents to do the bidding of oil and other resource-extraction
interests, military contractors and financiers. Whenever a president
showed independence or sought reforms that threatened entrenched
interests, this group helped to ensure that he was politically
attacked and neutralized, or even removed from office, through one
means or another.

We are not dealing here with what are commonly dismissed as
"conspiracy theories." We are dealing with a reality that is much
more subtle, layered and pervasive -- a matrix of power in which crude
conspiracies are rarely necessary and in which the execution or
subsequent cover-up of anti-democratic acts become practically a norm.

In 1953, 23 years before he became CIA director as a supposed
neophyte, George H.W. Bush began preparing to launch an
oil-exploration company called Zapata Offshore. His father, investment
banker Prescott Bush, had just taken a Senate seat from Connecticut;
and his father's close friend Allen Dulles had just taken over the
CIA. A staff CIA officer, Thomas J. Devine, purportedly "resigned" to
go into the oil business with young George.

Bush then began to travel around the world. His itineraries had little
apparent relationship to his limited and perennially unprofitable
business enterprises. But they do make sense if the object was
intelligence work. When his company at last put a few oil rigs in
place, they ended up in highly sensitive spots, such as just off
Castro's Cuba before the Bay of Pigs invasion.

As part of his travels, Bush senior even appeared in Dallas on the
morning of the Kennedy assassination, although he would famously claim
that he could not recall where he was at that historic moment. After
leaving the city, he called the FBI with a false tip about a possible
assassin, pointedly emphasizing that he was calling from outside
Dallas. It is also intriguing to learn that an old friend of Bush's, a
White Russian émigré with intelligence connections, shepherded Lee
Harvey Oswald upon his return to America in the year preceding the
assassination. In any event, when Lyndon Johnson replaced Kennedy, the
oilmen and the intelligence-military establishment once again had a
friend in the White House.

The pattern continued. New evidence suggests that Bush senior and his
associates in the intelligence services, far from being the loyalists
to Richard Nixon they claimed to be, had turned on the 35th president
early in his administration, unceasingly working to weaken and
eventually force him out. These efforts culminated in what appears to
have been a deliberately botched Watergate office burglary -- led by
former CIA officers.

Ironically, Nixon's career had been launched with the quiet backing of
Wall Street finance figures upset with the man Nixon would defeat, a
leading congressional supporter of banking reform, and Prescott Bush
himself had played a key role. Yet, when Nixon finally achieved the
presidency, he became surprisingly resistant to pressure from the very
power centers that had helped him get to the top. He turned a deaf ear
to the demands of the oil industry, battled with the CIA and cut the
Pentagon out of the loop as he (and his aide Henry Kissinger)
negotiated secretly with Moscow and Beijing.

These acts estranged Nixon from those who felt he had betrayed his
sponsors -- men who had the means to do him in. Bush senior, it turns
out, was closely allied with the surprising number of White House
officials with covert ties to the intelligence service that surrounded
Nixon. Through it all, Bush senior would routinely claim to be "out of
the loop," as he would later pretend during the Iran-Contra scandal of
the Reagan era, although we know that as vice president he was at the
center of that and other abuses of power.

None of this let up after Nixon was forced to resign. His pliant
successor, Gerald Ford, brought in young staffers named Richard Cheney
and Donald Rumsfeld, and the two participated in the so-called
Halloween massacre, which saw the administration veer in a far-right
direction on foreign policy, a development that paved the way for the
appointment of Bush senior as CIA director. This happened just as
Congress was launched into the deepest investigation ever of
intelligence abuses, and public voices were clamoring to reopen
official inquiries into the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, his
brother, Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr.

Then came Jimmy Carter, whose plans to reform the CIA were an echo of
JFK's intent to scatter the CIA to the winds after the ruinous Bay of
Pigs invasion. When Carter defeated Ford, ousted Bush from the CIA
helm and sought to bring the intelligence juggernaut under control, he
ended up deeply compromised by complex financial shenanigans
orchestrated by figures from the same intelligence circles -- and
undermined by the crisis with Iran, exacerbated by covert dissident
CIA elements tied to Bush. Carter was a one-term president, defeated
by a ticket with none other than George H.W. Bush, backed by a phalanx
of CIA officers, as vice president. And then Bush senior became
president himself.

Bill Clinton apparently grasped the pattern. He cultivated a friendly
relationship with the elder Bush and instituted virtually no
significant reforms in, or issued challenges to, either the
intelligence or military establishments.

All this is relevant today because the furtive forces and pressures
that haunted, and ultimately dominated, these past presidents have not
abated.

Indeed, what the presidency of George W. Bush truly represented was
the unfettered, most reckless manifestation of the objectives this
group has pursued for many decades. In Bush 43's trademark pattern of
showing the old man how it's done, the son was bringing virtually into
the open the kinds of things his father preferred pursued sub-rosa.
But behind the different façade it was the same game all over again.

The dirty tricks of Karl Rove, who got his first job under Bush 41 at
the Republican Party during Watergate; the use of the Supreme Court to
force an election their way; an early move to suppress the records of
prior presidencies; the maniacal secrecy of Vice President Cheney; the
false rationale used to justify the seizure of Iraqi oil reserves
through invasion; the clampdown on dissent and the unauthorized
domestic eavesdropping, the efforts to smear independent voices like
Joseph Wilson (the husband of CIA officer Valerie Plame) and newsman
Dan Rather; and last and perhaps most significant, the unleashing from
government oversight of their friends and allies in finance and
industry -- these and more emerged from the old dreams and methods of
this anti-democratic culture.

Now, as a new president enters the White House promising reform, how
much will he be able to achieve if his reforms step on the same big
toes? We must begin to take seriously, and speak openly about, the
true nature of the forces behind the Bush family enterprise. If we do
not, we will find ourselves, several years from now, shaking our heads
at new disaster, still unable to comprehend what has happened -- and
why.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-22 19:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Why are you persisting in playing divisive partisan politics, rusty?

Don't you care to honor the request of OUR new President that we put
aside such behavior?

Are you so self-centered you can't put AMERICA first!?!?
SMITH29
2009-01-22 20:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House near
the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
His running mate will be George Foreman who if elected will give every
household a fryer for only shipping and handling fee of $87.49.......
http://www.georgeforemancooking.com/products/Products.aspx?ProductId=45
We am be doin some cookin.

29
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-22 20:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House near
the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Post by SMITH29
His running mate will be George Foreman who if elected will give every
household a fryer for only shipping and handling fee of $87.49.......
http://www.georgeforemancooking.com/products/Products.aspx?ProductId=45
We am be doin some cookin.
29
Grease free!
Bill Z.
2009-01-22 21:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-22 23:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
That it is.
Post by Bill Z.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
Actually he's the most effective and centrist of the family.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 00:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
That it is.
Post by Bill Z.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
Actually he's the most effective and centrist of the family.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington. It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
That it is.
Post by Bill Z.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
Actually he's the most effective and centrist of the family.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington.
For now.
Post by Bill Z.
It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
People have short memory muscles.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 01:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington.
For now.
Post by Bill Z.
It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
People have short memory muscles.
The economic mess Bush left should provide a reminder for years to come.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington.
For now.
Post by Bill Z.
It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
People have short memory muscles.
The economic mess Bush left should provide a reminder for years to come.
You mean Greenspan and credit default swaps.

Bush overspent yes, but he did not cause the credit default mess.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 01:36:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington.
For now.
Post by Bill Z.
It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
People have short memory muscles.
The economic mess Bush left should provide a reminder for years to come.
You mean Greenspan and credit default swaps.
Bush overspent yes, but he did not cause the credit default mess.
He went way beyond overspending, significantly reducing the options we
have to deal with the problems.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington.
For now.
Post by Bill Z.
It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
People have short memory muscles.
The economic mess Bush left should provide a reminder for years to come.
You mean Greenspan and credit default swaps.
Bush overspent yes, but he did not cause the credit default mess.
He went way beyond overspending, significantly reducing the options we
have to deal with the problems.
Not entirely HIS doing.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 02:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
He went way beyond overspending, significantly reducing the options we
have to deal with the problems.
Not entirely HIS doing.
... you mean he had some help.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 02:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
He went way beyond overspending, significantly reducing the options we
have to deal with the problems.
Not entirely HIS doing.
... you mean he had some help.
Plenty, in Congress on BOTH sides and at the Fed.
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 01:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
That it is.
Post by Bill Z.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
Actually he's the most effective and centrist of the family.
... which is irrelevant when a brand is damaged - Jeb might have to
change is last name because the name "Bush" brings up the disaster
that just departed from Washington. It would be like trying to set up
a company in New Orleans called "Katrina Quality Service" - no matter
how good a job it did, the name would be a turn off.
Well, Katrina did 'clean up' New Orleans ...
SMITH29
2009-01-23 00:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.

29
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 01:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Not IF Iraq succeeds as a democracy - then he would be hailed as a
visionary.
g***@amusenet.com
2009-01-23 01:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Not IF Iraq succeeds as a democracy - then he would be hailed as a
visionary.
Hey -- wait Just a goldarned Minute here!

Not so long ago, your lot was hailing Iraq as an Actual Functioning
Democracy. Now the matter is in some doubt?

Make up what's left of your Mind here!
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 02:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Not IF Iraq succeeds as a democracy - then he would be hailed as a
visionary.
Hey -- wait Just a goldarned Minute here!
Not so long ago, your lot was hailing Iraq as an Actual Functioning
Democracy. Now the matter is in some doubt?
Long term...sure.
Post by g***@amusenet.com
Make up what's left of your Mind here!
We're pulling out, it's no longer a sure thing.
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 01:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 02:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Ditto that.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 02:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 04:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...

Thermostats...turn down...

Imported oil - DOUBLED!
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 04:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
Sweaters ....

Lust ....

Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 05:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
Sweaters ....
Lust ....
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
LOL!

Pat Schroeder on the Great Wall of China in a bunny suit!

http://www.westword.com/1998-04-16/news/pat-answers/

First, about that bunny-suit business.
Twenty Easters ago, Pat Schroeder was touring China with fellow members
of the U.S. House of Representatives' Armed Services Committee--with a
bunny suit in her bag, packed at the behest of Jimmy Carter's
ambassador, who was hosting an Easter egg hunt. Schroeder arrived in
full rabbit regalia, the kids mobbed her, and a week later, she was
mobbed again, this time by reporters who wanted to know why the
congresswoman had hopped all over China dressed as a rabbit.

The bunny suit was donated to the Denver Children's Museum.
As to why Schroeder happened to own a bunny suit--well, you'll just have
to read the book.

"I tried to set the record straight, but no one in the press would have
it," Schroeder writes in 24 Years of House Work...and the Place Is Still
a Mess. "Finally I gave up. I issued a statement that Congress would be
a better place if more members wore rabbit suits instead of power suits."
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 05:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
Sweaters ....
Lust ....
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
LOL!
Pat Schroeder on the Great Wall of China in a bunny suit!
http://www.westword.com/1998-04-16/news/pat-answers/
First, about that bunny-suit business.
Twenty Easters ago, Pat Schroeder was touring China with fellow members of
the U.S. House of Representatives' Armed Services Committee--with a bunny
suit in her bag, packed at the behest of Jimmy Carter's ambassador, who
was hosting an Easter egg hunt. Schroeder arrived in full rabbit regalia,
the kids mobbed her, and a week later, she was mobbed again, this time by
reporters who wanted to know why the congresswoman had hopped all over
China dressed as a rabbit.
The bunny suit was donated to the Denver Children's Museum.
As to why Schroeder happened to own a bunny suit--well, you'll just have
to read the book.
"I tried to set the record straight, but no one in the press would have
it," Schroeder writes in 24 Years of House Work...and the Place Is Still a
Mess. "Finally I gave up. I issued a statement that Congress would be a
better place if more members wore rabbit suits instead of power suits."
It would be a better place if none of them showed up.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 16:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
Sweaters ....
Lust ....
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
LOL!
Pat Schroeder on the Great Wall of China in a bunny suit!
http://www.westword.com/1998-04-16/news/pat-answers/
First, about that bunny-suit business.
Twenty Easters ago, Pat Schroeder was touring China with fellow
members of the U.S. House of Representatives' Armed Services
Committee--with a bunny suit in her bag, packed at the behest of Jimmy
Carter's ambassador, who was hosting an Easter egg hunt. Schroeder
arrived in full rabbit regalia, the kids mobbed her, and a week later,
she was mobbed again, this time by reporters who wanted to know why
the congresswoman had hopped all over China dressed as a rabbit.
The bunny suit was donated to the Denver Children's Museum.
As to why Schroeder happened to own a bunny suit--well, you'll just
have to read the book.
"I tried to set the record straight, but no one in the press would
have it," Schroeder writes in 24 Years of House Work...and the Place
Is Still a Mess. "Finally I gave up. I issued a statement that
Congress would be a better place if more members wore rabbit suits
instead of power suits."
It would be a better place if none of them showed up.
Amen.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 05:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Sweaters ....
.... sensible
Post by Lobby Dosser
Lust ....
.... religious comment - he never cheated on his wife.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
.... they can actually be a bit aggressive, but then the
press took pictures - just as they did with Gerald Ford skiing
(every time he fell down). One fall on a ski trip and that is
what would make the news!
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 17:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Sweaters ....
.... sensible
Post by Lobby Dosser
Lust ....
.... religious comment - he never cheated on his wife.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
.... they can actually be a bit aggressive, but then the
press took pictures - just as they did with Gerald Ford skiing
(every time he fell down). One fall on a ski trip and that is
what would make the news!
Or one errant golf ball...or his golden retriever...or...etc...

The drumbeat of the insensitive and uncompassionate left soldiers on...
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 20:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Sweaters ....
.... sensible
Post by Lobby Dosser
Lust ....
.... religious comment - he never cheated on his wife.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
.... they can actually be a bit aggressive, but then the
press took pictures - just as they did with Gerald Ford skiing
(every time he fell down). One fall on a ski trip and that is
what would make the news!
Or one errant golf ball...or his golden retriever...or...etc...
The drumbeat of the insensitive and uncompassionate left soldiers on...
In other words, you got everything wrong but are blaming the "left"
anyway, even though it was just a bunch of reports trying to find
mindless stuff that would help sell newspapers.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 23:24:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Sweaters ....
.... sensible
Post by Lobby Dosser
Lust ....
.... religious comment - he never cheated on his wife.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
.... they can actually be a bit aggressive, but then the
press took pictures - just as they did with Gerald Ford skiing
(every time he fell down). One fall on a ski trip and that is
what would make the news!
Or one errant golf ball...or his golden retriever...or...etc...
The drumbeat of the insensitive and uncompassionate left soldiers on...
In other words, you got everything wrong
I got nothing wrong.
ROTFLMAO.

<childish comments ignored.>
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-24 00:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Sweaters ....
.... sensible
Post by Lobby Dosser
Lust ....
.... religious comment - he never cheated on his wife.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Swimming Attack Rabbits ...
.... they can actually be a bit aggressive, but then the
press took pictures - just as they did with Gerald Ford skiing
(every time he fell down). One fall on a ski trip and that is
what would make the news!
Or one errant golf ball...or his golden retriever...or...etc...
The drumbeat of the insensitive and uncompassionate left soldiers on...
In other words, you got everything wrong
I got nothing wrong.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 00:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No, you've shown yourself to be an ill-bred foul-mouthed idiot.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 01:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No,
Yes, asshole, you really are!
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 03:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No,
Yes, asshole, you really are!
No, you are not only a liar, but a rude little jerk as well, a
completely worthless excuse for a human being.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 03:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No,
Yes, asshole, you really are!
No,
Yes.

Drop dead.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 05:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No,
Yes, asshole, you really are!
No,
Yes.
Drop dead.
What an infant - typical of you right-wing loons.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 05:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO.
<childish comments ignored.>
You're a full exposed lying scumbag.
No,
Yes, asshole, you really are!
No,
Yes.
Drop dead.
What an infant -
What a shitbag you are.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 05:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.

As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter. As to imports, look at
<Loading Image...>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter (a
slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.

You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 16:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by Bill Z.
Post by SMITH29
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Don't know who the "KING" refers to, but history will judge Bush as
one of the worst presidents, if not the worst one, the we've seen
so far.
Jimma has a Lock on that.
Jimmy Carter got a lot of static he didn't deserve.
Helicopters...sand filters...
Thermostats...turn down...
Imported oil - DOUBLED!
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.
Excuse making.

He was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, right?

And an officer, right?

And a nuke-u-lure scientist, right?
Post by Bill Z.
As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter.
As did IMPORTS from the Middle east!

And at far higher rate!

To say nothing of price!

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=265590277656184

Leadership: Of all the errors Jimmy Carter committed, none has earned
him more well-justified scorn than his handling of the 1970s energy
crisis. True enough, he didn't cause it. But he did make it much, much
worse.

When Carter came into office in January 1977, the price of a barrel of
oil was about $14. When he left a mere four years later, oil — the
lifeblood of the U.S. and world economy — stood at more than $35 a
barrel, a 154% rise.

The resulting double-digit inflation and surging interest rates cut into
Americans' real incomes. Rosy predictions that higher inflation would at
least boost employment — a mainstay at the time of Keynesian economic
thought — proved disastrously false. Unemployment rose, and the
resulting "stagflation" became entrenched.

Worse, the rate of productivity growth, the engine for future growth in
standards of living, plunged by nearly two thirds from its postwar
average of nearly 3% a year.

Pressure on oil prices built early in Carter's term in office as OPEC
jacked up prices. But oil really took off in 1979, after the Shah of
Iran was toppled by fundamentalist Islamic revolutionaries led by
Ayatollah Khomeini. President Carter's weak and vacillating support for
the Shah of Iran encouraged the rebellion.

Things went from bad to worse.

With oil prices rising out of control, Carter in June 1979 canceled his
vacation and gathered dozens of mostly Democratic leaders at Camp David
to discuss what to do. The address to Americans that resulted, made in
July 1979, became known as the "malaise" speech.

In it, Carter suggested high oil prices weren't the problem; just
Americans' tendency "to worship self-indulgence and consumption."
Further, he said Americans suffered a "crisis of confidence."

He began, conspicuously, to wear a cardigan sweater. He put solar panels
on the White House. He turned down the thermostat, and started burning
wood in the fireplace.

None of the high-handed symbology worked, however. Later in 1979,
Carter's weak response to Iran's radical regime taking 52 Americans
hostage sent oil prices soaring again. Carter cut off oil imports from
Iran and the mullahs imposed an oil embargo, leading to a global market
panic and a surge in prices — the second oil shock of the decade.

Within weeks, gas lines formed in cities across the U.S., with cars
snaking up and down streets and around city blocks. Americans left
idling in gas queues felt both angry and helpless, as they watched
prices soar and shortages emerge — and saw a government unable or
unwilling to fix the problem.

And what was Carter's response? Mostly symbolic stuff. He had a number
of chances to correct the situation. He didn't.

In his malaise speech, Carter had laid out six proposals to end the
energy crisis. They included simply telling people to stop using so much
energy, the creation of the Synthetic Fuels Corp. and a handful of other
costly alternative energy schemes, and the formation of the Energy
Department. Despite billions spent, none did the job.

Unfortunately, he waited far too long to do what he really needed to do:
Namely, completely end price controls on domestic oil, kill off oil
import quotas, and veto the Windfall Profits Tax Act.

All of those policy moves had, taken together, sharply curtailed U.S.
oil output, boosting our dependence on foreign oil and giving OPEC's
unelected potentates a virtual stranglehold over the world economy.

As a result, by the end of his term in office, Carter was less popular
than Richard Nixon was during the depths of the Watergate scandal, with
an approval rating of just 25%. Remember, Nixon had to resign or face
impeachment proceedings.

It's pretty clear today that, absent any other policy changes, Carter
could have prevented the second oil shock if he had only stood by the
Shah — who had been a staunch U.S. ally in a sea of hostile Mideast
governments for 25 years.

Instead, his weakness led to the upsurge in Islamic fundamentalism and
terrorism across the Mideast that continues today.

Worse, Carter erred in thinking the government — and not a healthy,
functioning market with realistic price signals — could end the oil
crisis. It couldn't in the 1970s, and it can't today.

It's disheartening on some levels to hear many of the same proposals for
our energy ills emerging from the Democrats in Congress. Have they
learned nothing? Or are they just counting on average people having
forgotten the misery of the Carter years?

Regardless, we know there's a way out. President Reagan, in a few bold
moves within weeks of entering office, totally decontrolled oil prices.
Prices peaked, the amount of oil on the market surged, and inflation's
back was broken.
Post by Bill Z.
As to imports, look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter
Why you lying shitbag!

That graph shows nothing of the sort!

It's graph of oil PRODUCTION, not imports!!!!

And it shows US Production peaked in the late 1960s and has been in
decline since!
Post by Bill Z.
(a slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.
You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
I'm sorry but you're just dead wrong, Carter's policies led to a clear
increase in oil imports:

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm

1970's year: 6 7 8 9

1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541

The Reagan years then showed:

1980s year: 0 1 2 3 4

1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949



Did you really think you were going to be allowed to get away with such
blatant lying?!?!?
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 20:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.
Excuse making.
He was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, right?
... and was on a submarine as I recall.
Post by Sam Parkhill
And an officer, right?
And a nuke-u-lure scientist, right?
Nope - <http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-14.htm>.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter.
As did IMPORTS from the Middle east!
And at far higher rate!
To say nothing of price!
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=265590277656184
<snip of silly hit piece>
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to imports, look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter
Why you lying shitbag!
That graph shows nothing of the sort!
Nope, I wasn't lying - I made a cut and paste error of the URL.
I was actually looking at the URL you provided below, and you
misinterpretted that.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
(a slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.
You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
I'm sorry but you're just dead wrong, Carter's policies led to a clear
That's not what you claimed - you had previously stated that oil
imports doubled under Carter when in fact they went up about 23%.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm
1970's year: 6 7 8 9
1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541
1980s year: 0 1 2 3 4
1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949
Did you really think you were going to be allowed to get away with
such blatant lying?!?!?
No, you are the liar. From the URL you provided (and that didn't get
copied correctly in my post):

U.S. Crude Oil Imports (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Decade Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4 Year-5 Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-9

1970's 1,324 1,681 2,216 3,244 3,477 4,105 5,287 6,615 6,356 6,519
1980's 5,263 4,396 3,488 3,329 3,426 3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 5,843

Oil imports went up by only about 23 percent under Carter. They fell
during Reagan's first term, probably due in part to the conservation
measures that Carter helped introduce, and then rose rapidly during
Reagan's second term.

The data proves you are wrong (not to mention that none of the numbers
you provided are in the URL you quoted - at least not on that page).
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 21:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.
Excuse making.
He was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, right?
... and was on a submarine as I recall.
So?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
And an officer, right?
And a nuke-u-lure scientist, right?
Nope - <http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-14.htm>.
He was on his way, admit it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter.
As did IMPORTS from the Middle east!
And at far higher rate!
To say nothing of price!
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=265590277656184
<snip of silly hit piece>
Truth hurts doesn't it, liar?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to imports, look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter
Why you lying shitbag!
That graph shows nothing of the sort!
Nope, I wasn't lying - I made a cut and paste error of the URL.
Right....
Post by Bill Z.
I was actually looking at the URL you provided below, and you
misinterpretted that.
Uh huh...suuuure....
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
(a slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.
You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
I'm sorry but you're just dead wrong, Carter's policies led to a clear
That's not what you claimed - you had previously stated that oil
imports doubled under Carter when in fact they went up about 23%.
To be more accurate it was ME imports that doubled, I should have
specified that.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm
1970's year: 6 7 8 9
1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541
1980s year: 0 1 2 3 4
1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949
Did you really think you were going to be allowed to get away with
such blatant lying?!?!?
No, you are the liar. From the URL you provided (and that didn't get
I sure did, stop lying.
Post by Bill Z.
U.S. Crude Oil Imports (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Decade Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4 Year-5 Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-9
1970's 1,324 1,681 2,216 3,244 3,477 4,105 5,287 6,615 6,356 6,519
1980's 5,263 4,396 3,488 3,329 3,426 3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 5,843
Oil imports went up by only about 23 percent under Carter.
But it was UP not DOWN.
Post by Bill Z.
They fell
during Reagan's first term, probably due in part to the conservation
measures that Carter helped introduce, and then rose rapidly during
Reagan's second term.
During the last part of his term only.
Post by Bill Z.
The data proves you are wrong (not to mention that none of the numbers
you provided are in the URL you quoted - at least not on that page).
You're a bald faced liar.

I won't waste further time on you.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 23:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.
Excuse making.
He was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, right?
... and was on a submarine as I recall.
So?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
And an officer, right?
And a nuke-u-lure scientist, right?
Nope - <http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-14.htm>.
He was on his way, admit it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter.
As did IMPORTS from the Middle east!
And at far higher rate!
To say nothing of price!
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=265590277656184
<snip of silly hit piece>
Truth hurts doesn't it, liar?
It is not the truth at all, liar, but a mindless right-wing hit piece.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to imports, look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter
Why you lying shitbag!
That graph shows nothing of the sort!
Nope, I wasn't lying - I made a cut and paste error of the URL.
Right....
Yes right - otherwise what I stated about it wouldn't have turned out
to be right. All that happened (probably) is that I selected text
but didn't "copy" it so the older URL in the cut buffer was pasted
in instead.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
I was actually looking at the URL you provided below, and you
misinterpretted that.
Uh huh...suuuure....
Yep, as I showed and as you are now ignoring.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
(a slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.
You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
I'm sorry but you're just dead wrong, Carter's policies led to a clear
That's not what you claimed - you had previously stated that oil
imports doubled under Carter when in fact they went up about 23%.
To be more accurate it was ME imports that doubled, I should have
specified that.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm
1970's year: 6 7 8 9
1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541
1980s year: 0 1 2 3 4
1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949
Did you really think you were going to be allowed to get away with
such blatant lying?!?!?
No, you are the liar. From the URL you provided (and that didn't get
I sure did, stop lying.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page. The ones below
are. Maybe you clicked on a link and found something else in a
different units, but your URL doesn't match what you claimed. According
to you (see above) that can't be a mistake, so you must be a liar.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
U.S. Crude Oil Imports (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Decade Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4 Year-5 Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-9
1970's 1,324 1,681 2,216 3,244 3,477 4,105 5,287 6,615 6,356 6,519
1980's 5,263 4,396 3,488 3,329 3,426 3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 5,843
Oil imports went up by only about 23 percent under Carter.
But it was UP not DOWN.
Your orignal claim in <news:49794916$0$18129$***@newsrazor.net>
was "Imported oil - DOUBLED!". You were wrong - it did not double, not
even close, as it went up 23%. It went up much more than that during
Reagan's second term.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
They fell
during Reagan's first term, probably due in part to the conservation
measures that Carter helped introduce, and then rose rapidly during
Reagan's second term.
During the last part of his term only.
No, during the whole second term (Year-5 to Year-8 inclusive above):
3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 - an increase of 59 percent. So,
you'd have to consider Reagan far worse than Carter if increase in
oil imports over a term in office is your criteria.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
The data proves you are wrong (not to mention that none of the numbers
you provided are in the URL you quoted - at least not on that page).
You're a bald faced liar.
I won't waste further time on you.
You are lying through your teeth. I gave the link and copied the
relevant data from it. Anyone can check.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-24 00:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
ROTFLMAO. Carter didn't fly the helicopters, and presidents do not
plan that level of detail in a military operation.
Excuse making.
He was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, right?
... and was on a submarine as I recall.
So?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
And an officer, right?
And a nuke-u-lure scientist, right?
Nope - <http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-14.htm>.
He was on his way, admit it.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to the other two, first look up
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis>. Basically it was
turmoil in Iran coupled with the Iranian Revolution that resulted in
less oil production worldwide. U.S. oil production actually went up
under Carter.
As did IMPORTS from the Middle east!
And at far higher rate!
To say nothing of price!
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=265590277656184
<snip of silly hit piece>
Truth hurts doesn't it, liar?
It is not the truth at all, liar, but a mindless right-wing hit piece.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
As to imports, look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png>,
which shows that U.S. imports did not changing much under Carter
Why you lying shitbag!
That graph shows nothing of the sort!
Nope, I wasn't lying - I made a cut and paste error of the URL.
Right....
Yes right - otherwise what I stated about it wouldn't have turned out
to be right. All that happened (probably) is that I selected text
but didn't "copy" it so the older URL in the cut buffer was pasted
in instead.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
I was actually looking at the URL you provided below, and you
misinterpretted that.
Uh huh...suuuure....
Yep, as I showed and as you are now ignoring.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
(a slight increase) but really shooting up during the early 1970s (Nixon
and Ford administrations). During the last year of the Carter
administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration,
imports fell, but have been going up ever since.
You conservatives can't seem to get anything right!
I'm sorry but you're just dead wrong, Carter's policies led to a clear
That's not what you claimed - you had previously stated that oil
imports doubled under Carter when in fact they went up about 23%.
To be more accurate it was ME imports that doubled, I should have
specified that.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm
1970's year: 6 7 8 9
1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541
1980s year: 0 1 2 3 4
1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949
Did you really think you were going to be allowed to get away with
such blatant lying?!?!?
No, you are the liar. From the URL you provided (and that didn't get
I sure did, stop lying.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page.
They sure as fuck are!

What kind of a pathologial LIAR are you anyway????

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm

U.S. Crude Oil Imports from All Countries (Thousand Barrels)

1970's Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-9

1,935,012 2,414,327 2,319,826 2,379,541

{ that is a direct copy and paste from the url}


and:

1980's Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4

1,926,162 1,604,703 1,273,214 1,215,225 1,253,949

{ again = a direct copy and paste}
Post by Bill Z.
The ones below
are. Maybe you clicked on a link and found something else
You're the same blithering IDIOT who pasted in the wrong link from wiki
on imported oil figures, dolt!

There's something wrong with your brain.
Post by Bill Z.
in a
different units, but your URL doesn't match what you claimed. According
to you (see above) that can't be a mistake, so you must be a liar.
Dude, fucking open your eyes and learn to READ the data!!!!
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
U.S. Crude Oil Imports (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Yo!

That came from somewhere else, care to cite the url properly???
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Decade Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4 Year-5 Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-9
1970's 1,324 1,681 2,216 3,244 3,477 4,105 5,287 6,615 6,356 6,519
1980's 5,263 4,396 3,488 3,329 3,426 3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 5,843
Oil imports went up by only about 23 percent under Carter.
But it was UP not DOWN.
was "Imported oil - DOUBLED!". You were wrong - it did not double, not
even close, as it went up 23%. It went up much more than that during
Reagan's second term.
I failed to note, as I told you in the preceding post, that I was
referring to ME oil imports, again, my bad.

The data I read indicated that ME imports rise from 8-16% of our total
imports during The carter years.

How many fucking times do you want me to say it so YOU can snip it?
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
They fell
during Reagan's first term, probably due in part to the conservation
measures that Carter helped introduce, and then rose rapidly during
Reagan's second term.
During the last part of his term only.
3,201 4,178 4,674 5,107 - an increase of 59 percent. So,
you'd have to consider Reagan far worse than Carter if increase in
oil imports over a term in office is your criteria.
Not so:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6DA1E31F933A05751C1A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Worrying Anew Over Oil Imports

By ROBERT D. HERSHEY JR., SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: December 30, 1989

American dependence on foreign oil dropped to 28 percent over all in
1982 and 1983, from a peak of 46.5 percent in 1977, and the reliance on
Middle East sources dwindled even further as Britain, Mexico, Nigeria
and Norway joined Canada in the forefront of American suppliers.

OPEC had seen its share of the world market drop to less than a third in
1985, from about half during the 1970's.



Again, my bad, I was referring to ME (OPEC) oil imports.

Let's try and access that data, shall we?

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mttimuspg1m.htm

Whoops, not on that website eh, Persian Gulf data is only presented from
1993-2008.

OK then...

http://move.rmi.org/features/oilmap.html

Try this interactive map.

You'll see vast increases in ME oil imports during Carter's term and a
swift drop in Reagan's.

Just click on the green > button to activate the interactive time line,
and it elegantly shows which regions our imports were arriving from and
also in what proportion.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
The data proves you are wrong (not to mention that none of the numbers
you provided are in the URL you quoted - at least not on that page).
You're a bald faced liar.
I won't waste further time on you.
You are lying through your teeth. I gave the link and copied the
relevant data from it. Anyone can check.
I'm sorry but you LIED about the link I presented - as proven above, and
you pasted wholly different data without accurately citing the source url.

In addition you munged your own initial rebuttal with a bad link from wiki.

You simply can NOT be taken seriously at this point.

Jimmy Carter was a complete failure, as history and the polls record,
and you will just have to admit it and move on.

At least he can claim a fine legacy through Habitat.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 00:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page.
They sure as fuck are!
What kind of a pathologial LIAR are you anyway????
I was looking at
<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus2a.htm>
You were looking at
< http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm>

Calling someone a "pathological liar" over confusion due to
a one-character difference in two URLS of the same length makes
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.

So, try acting like an adult for a change - I quoted what was
on the web page I referred to precisely. You were probably
switching between two pages and didn't notice as the URLs are
nearly identical, and the page formats are identical as
well (only the numbers differ).
Post by Sam Parkhill
Dude, fucking open your eyes and learn to READ the data!!!!
I did - looking at the URL I referred to.
Post by Sam Parkhill
That came from somewhere else, care to cite the url properly???
I did. You probably didn't notice because of the one-character
difference between the two.

The figures aren't labeled well enough to tell what the difference
is. The one I found came up near the top of the list on a google
search for

oil imports 1970s
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 01:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page.
They sure as fuck are!
What kind of a pathologial LIAR are you anyway????
I was looking at
<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus2a.htm>
You were looking at
< http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm>
Calling someone a "pathological liar" over confusion due to
a one-character difference in two URLS of the same length makes
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.

If you're not liar, you're the world's worst copy and paster.
Post by Bill Z.
So, try acting like an adult for a change - I quoted what was
on the web page I referred to precisely. You were probably
switching between two pages and didn't notice as the URLs are
nearly identical, and the page formats are identical as
well (only the numbers differ).
The problem was NOT mine, dipshit.

It was YOURS.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Dude, fucking open your eyes and learn to READ the data!!!!
I did - looking at the URL I referred to.
Post by Sam Parkhill
That came from somewhere else, care to cite the url properly???
I did. You probably didn't notice because of the one-character
difference between the two.
You're a liar.

As noted.
Post by Bill Z.
The figures aren't labeled well enough to tell what the difference
is.
That's another lie - I cited them correctly TWICE.
Post by Bill Z.
The one I found came up near the top of the list on a google
search for oil imports 1970s
You're out.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 03:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page.
They sure as fuck are!
What kind of a pathologial LIAR are you anyway????
I was looking at
<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus2a.htm>
You were looking at
< http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm>
Calling someone a "pathological liar" over confusion due to
a one-character difference in two URLS of the same length makes
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once - probably selected but did not
copy or something, or there was an issue between the multiple
conventions in some X-windows apps. The other confusion was
simply that we were talking about two similar URLs. I cut and
pasted from one and gave the correct URL for that. You might
have found a different one and thought it was the same because
of the one-character difference being hard to see, and similarly
I didn't see your difference at first.
Post by Sam Parkhill
If you're not liar, you're the world's worst copy and paster.
You were just shown two very similar URLs which explained the
descrepancy. Calling people a "liar" and or "world's worst copy and
paster" just makes you look like an infantile jerk.
Post by Sam Parkhill
The problem was NOT mine, dipshit.
It was YOURS.
No, it was partly yours since in one instance when I clicked on
a link you provided (in one message), I got the table I remembered.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
That came from somewhere else, care to cite the url properly???
I did. You probably didn't notice because of the one-character
difference between the two.
You're a liar.
No, you are.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
The figures aren't labeled well enough to tell what the difference
is.
That's another lie - I cited them correctly TWICE.
No, moron, it is not a lie but a fact - the tables were not labeled
well enough. The label is not the URL but the text on the web page
that tells what the data is supposed to represent. Standard conventions
are that the labels of tables and graphs are supposed to describe what
the tables and graphs contain with enough detail to be unambiguous.
If the one I found was a subset of all oil imports, that should have
been explicitly stated and it wasn't.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
The one I found came up near the top of the list on a google
search for oil imports 1970s
You're out.
No, you are "out".
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 03:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
You are the liar - those numbers are not on that page.
They sure as fuck are!
What kind of a pathologial LIAR are you anyway????
I was looking at
<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus2a.htm>
You were looking at
< http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrimus1a.htm>
Calling someone a "pathological liar" over confusion due to
a one-character difference in two URLS of the same length makes
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once -
No, you're done.

Really, fuck off you liar.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 05:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once -
No, you're done.
Really, fuck off you liar.
Another right-wing loon calling anyone he disagrees with a
"pathological liar" in a classic case of projection.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 05:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once -
No, you're done.
Really, fuck off you liar.
Another right-wing
Buh bye.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 06:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once -
No, you're done.
Really, fuck off you liar.
Another right-wing
Buh bye.
Another right-wing loon calling anyone he disagrees with a
"pathological liar" in a classic case of projection.


I take it you are the troll someone mentioned earlier as
you are following the same pattern - snipping mid sentence,
saying things like "buh bye" but posting continually anyway,
and otherwise acting like a complete jerk.

So, you know precisely what you can do with yourself as you
are IMHO one of the the saddest cases of human trash on the
planet.

<plonk>
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 17:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
you look like quite an ill-bred idiot.
I'm sorry, but you have done this several times.
Nope - I miscopied a URL once -
No, you're done.
Really, fuck off you liar.
Another right-wing
Buh bye.
Another
<snip>

Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
29
If Iraq succeeds as a democracy Bush will be hailed as a visionary.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 01:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
29
If Iraq succeeds as a democracy Bush will be hailed as a visionary.
Nope. Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
29
If Iraq succeeds as a democracy Bush will be hailed as a visionary.
Nope.
Yup.
Post by Bill Z.
Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Look at what we spent in Germany and Japan.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 02:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
29
If Iraq succeeds as a democracy Bush will be hailed as a visionary.
Nope.
Yup.
Post by Bill Z.
Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Look at what we spent in Germany and Japan.
Comparing them to Iraq is comical - we didn't need to start a war
with Iraq as the sanctions were keeping a lid on Saddam.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 04:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
29
If Iraq succeeds as a democracy Bush will be hailed as a visionary.
Nope.
Yup.
Post by Bill Z.
Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Look at what we spent in Germany and Japan.
Comparing them to Iraq is comical -
Nope.
Post by Bill Z.
we didn't need to start a war
with Iraq as the sanctions were keeping a lid on Saddam.
You're either dead from the neck up or lying.

http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html

Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
« Rebuild quickly, but be sure to keep track of every penny or we'll
accuse you of corruption | Main | Do you smell something burning, eh? »

October 07, 2004
Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs
Here are some choice excerpts from the Comprehensive Report of the
Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq's WMD. The summary of Key Findings is
less than 20 pages of bullet points and is well worth reading. The
contrast between the import of the report and the way it is portrayed in
the "main stream media" is quite amazing. (All emphasis in the original.)

Saddam Husayn so dominated the Iraqi Regime that its strategic intent
was his alone. He wanted to end sanctions while preserving the
capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when
sanctions were lifted.
Saddam totally dominated the Regime's strategic decision making. He
initiated most of the strategic thinking upon which decisions were made,
whether in matters of war and peace (such as invading Kuwait),
maintaining WMD as a national strategic goal, or on how Iraq was to
position itself in the international community. Loyal dissent was
discouraged and constructive variations to the implementation of his
wishes on strategic issues were rare. Saddam was the Regime in a
strategic sense and his intent became Iraq's strategic policy.


Saddam's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN sanctions lifted,
while maintaining the security of the Regime. He sought to balance the
need to cooperate with UN inspections-to gain support for lifting
sanctions-with his intention to preserve Iraq's intellectual capital for
WMD with a minimum of foreign intrusiveness and loss of face. Indeed,
this remained the goal to the end of the Regime, as the starting of any
WMD program, conspicuous or otherwise, risked undoing the progress
achieved in eroding sanctions and jeopardizing a political end to the
embargo and international monitoring.


The introduction of the Oil-For-Food program (OFF) in late 1996 was a
key turning point for the Regime. OFF rescued Baghdad's economy from a
terminal decline created by sanctions. The Regime quickly came to see
that OFF could be corrupted to acquire foreign exchange both to further
undermine sanctions and to provide the means to enhance dual-use
infrastructure and potential WMD-related development.


By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of
sanctions and undermine their international support. Iraq was within
striking distance of a de facto end to the sanctions regime, both in
terms of oil exports and the trade embargo, by the end of 1999.
Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq's WMD capability-which was essentially
destroyed in 1991-after sanctions were removed and Iraq's economy
stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that
which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear
capability-in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international
pressure and the resulting economic risks-but he intended to focus on
ballistic
missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.

[Regime Strategic Intent, Key Findings, p. 1]
...One aspect of Saddam's strategy of unhinging the UN's sanctions
against Iraq, centered on Saddam's efforts to influence certain UN SC
permanent members, such as Russia, France, and China and some
nonpermanent (Syria, Ukraine) members to end UN sanctions. Under
Saddam's orders, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) formulated and
implemented a strategy aimed at these UNSC members and international
public opinion with the purpose of ending UN sanctions and undermining
its subsequent OFF program by diplomatic and economic means. At a
minimum, Saddam wanted to divide the fi ve permanent members and foment
international public support of Iraq at the UN and throughout the world
by a savvy public relations campaign and an extensive diplomatic effort.

Another element of this strategy involved circumventing UN sanctions and
the OFF program by means of "Protocols" or government-to-government
economic trade agreements. Protocols allowed Saddam to generate a large
amount of revenue outside the purview of the UN. The successful
implementation of the Protocols, continued oil smuggling efforts, and
the manipulation of UN OFF contracts emboldened Saddam to pursue his
military reconstitution efforts starting in 1997 and peaking in 2001.
These efforts covered conventional arms, dual-use goods acquisition, and
some WMD-related programs.


[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, p. 1]
. . .The Ministry of Oil (MoO) controlled the oil voucher distribution
program that used oil to influence UN members to support Iraq's goals.
Saddam personally approved and removed all names of voucher recipients.
He made all modifi cations to the list, adding or deleting names at
will. Other senior Iraqi leaders could nominate or recommend an
individual or organization to be added or subtracted from the voucher
list,and ad hoc allocation committees met to review and update the
allocations.

[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, pp. 2-3]
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 06:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Look at what we spent in Germany and Japan.
Comparing them to Iraq is comical -
Nope.
Post by Bill Z.
we didn't need to start a war
with Iraq as the sanctions were keeping a lid on Saddam.
You're either dead from the neck up or lying.
No, you are simply a moron.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.

Reality - Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and no capability
of getting any due the sanctions that were in place actually working
and keeping him contained. Sure he was a rat, but he wasn't an idiot,
and was at this point mostly a very big annoyance to only the Iraqis
(and, of coure, to G.W. Bush, who may have wanted to "one up" his
father and may have had a grudge due to an Iraqi intelligence attempt
to assassinate Bush's father in 1993 during a visit to Kuwait).
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 16:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Look at what we spent and what we got for it.
Look at what we spent in Germany and Japan.
Comparing them to Iraq is comical -
Nope.
Post by Bill Z.
we didn't need to start a war
with Iraq as the sanctions were keeping a lid on Saddam.
You're either dead from the neck up or lying.
No, you are simply a moron.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!

He compiled the actual report data from the Comprehensive Report of the
Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq's WMD.
Post by Bill Z.
Reality - Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and no capability
of
You are a proven LIAR, not one word you say henceforth will be taken as
anything other than summary mendacity.

"Saddam Husayn so dominated the Iraqi Regime that its strategic
intent was his alone. He wanted to end sanctions while preserving the
capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when
sanctions were lifted.

* Saddam totally dominated the Regime's strategic decision
making. He initiated most of the strategic thinking upon which decisions
were made, whether in matters of war and peace (such as invading
Kuwait), maintaining WMD as a national strategic goal, or on how Iraq
was to position itself in the international community. Loyal dissent was
discouraged and constructive variations to the implementation of his
wishes on strategic issues were rare. Saddam was the Regime in a
strategic sense and his intent became Iraq's strategic policy.

* Saddam's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN
sanctions lifted, while maintaining the security of the Regime. He
sought to balance the need to cooperate with UN inspections-to gain
support for lifting sanctions-with his intention to preserve Iraq's
intellectual capital for WMD with a minimum of foreign intrusiveness and
loss of face. Indeed, this remained the goal to the end of the Regime,
as the starting of any WMD program, conspicuous or otherwise, risked
undoing the progress achieved in eroding sanctions and jeopardizing a
political end to the embargo and international monitoring.

* The introduction of the Oil-For-Food program (OFF) in late
1996 was a key turning point for the Regime. OFF rescued Baghdad's
economy from a terminal decline created by sanctions. The Regime quickly
came to see that OFF could be corrupted to acquire foreign exchange both
to further undermine sanctions and to provide the means to enhance
dual-use infrastructure and potential WMD-related development.

* By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the
effects of sanctions and undermine their international support. Iraq was
within striking distance of a de facto end to the sanctions regime, both
in terms of oil exports and the trade embargo, by the end of 1999.

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq's WMD capability-which was
essentially destroyed in 1991-after sanctions were removed and Iraq's
economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to
that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear
capability-in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international
pressure and the resulting economic risks-but he intended to focus on
ballistic
missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
[Regime Strategic Intent, Key Findings, p. 1]

...One aspect of Saddam's strategy of unhinging the UN's sanctions
against Iraq, centered on Saddam's efforts to influence certain UN SC
permanent members, such as Russia, France, and China and some
nonpermanent (Syria, Ukraine) members to end UN sanctions. Under
Saddam's orders, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) formulated and
implemented a strategy aimed at these UNSC members and international
public opinion with the purpose of ending UN sanctions and undermining
its subsequent OFF program by diplomatic and economic means. At a
minimum, Saddam wanted to divide the fi ve permanent members and foment
international public support of Iraq at the UN and throughout the world
by a savvy public relations campaign and an extensive diplomatic effort.

Another element of this strategy involved circumventing UN
sanctions and the OFF program by means of "Protocols" or
government-to-government economic trade agreements. Protocols allowed
Saddam to generate a large amount of revenue outside the purview of the
UN. The successful implementation of the Protocols, continued oil
smuggling efforts, and the manipulation of UN OFF contracts emboldened
Saddam to pursue his military reconstitution efforts starting in 1997
and peaking in 2001. These efforts covered conventional arms, dual-use
goods acquisition, and some WMD-related programs.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, p. 1]

. . .The Ministry of Oil (MoO) controlled the oil voucher
distribution program that used oil to influence UN members to support
Iraq's goals. Saddam personally approved and removed all names of
voucher recipients. He made all modifi cations to the list, adding or
deleting names at will. Other senior Iraqi leaders could nominate or
recommend an individual or organization to be added or subtracted from
the voucher list,and ad hoc allocation committees met to review and
update the allocations.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, pp. 2-3]"



Now take your snip and lie tactics elsewhere, you detestable toadie.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 20:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."

He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Post by Sam Parkhill
He compiled the actual report data from the Comprehensive Report of
the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq's WMD.
Post by Bill Z.
Reality - Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and no capability
of
You are a proven LIAR, not one word you say henceforth will be taken
as anything other than summary mendacity.
No, you are a proven liar, given your misrepresentation of data in
your previous post.

<nonsense snipped>
Post by Sam Parkhill
Now take your snip and lie tactics elsewhere, you detestable toadie.
Grow up.

The reality - there were no weapons of mass destruction: none were
found after an extensive search on the ground after U.S. forces
invaded Iraq. That was not because Saddam was a nice guy but because
the sanctions were working.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 23:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
just as he claims and just as I said. His own description indicates
that it is not to be taken all that seriously.

<rest of this moron's post ignored>
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-24 00:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!

He quotes DIRECTLY from the Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor
to the DCI on Iraq's WMD.

Why do you keep snipping that and LYING????

You're a just a venial lying scumbag.

"Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq's WMD capability-which was
essentially destroyed in 1991-after sanctions were removed and Iraq's
economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to
that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear
capability-in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international
pressure and the resulting economic risks-but he intended to focus on
ballistic
missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
[Regime Strategic Intent, Key Findings, p. 1]

...One aspect of Saddam's strategy of unhinging the UN's sanctions
against Iraq, centered on Saddam's efforts to influence certain UN SC
permanent members, such as Russia, France, and China and some
nonpermanent (Syria, Ukraine) members to end UN sanctions. Under
Saddam's orders, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) formulated and
implemented a strategy aimed at these UNSC members and international
public opinion with the purpose of ending UN sanctions and undermining
its subsequent OFF program by diplomatic and economic means. At a
minimum, Saddam wanted to divide the fi ve permanent members and foment
international public support of Iraq at the UN and throughout the world
by a savvy public relations campaign and an extensive diplomatic effort.

Another element of this strategy involved circumventing UN
sanctions and the OFF program by means of "Protocols" or
government-to-government economic trade agreements. Protocols allowed
Saddam to generate a large amount of revenue outside the purview of the
UN. The successful implementation of the Protocols, continued oil
smuggling efforts, and the manipulation of UN OFF contracts emboldened
Saddam to pursue his military reconstitution efforts starting in 1997
and peaking in 2001. These efforts covered conventional arms, dual-use
goods acquisition, and some WMD-related programs.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, p. 1]

. . .The Ministry of Oil (MoO) controlled the oil voucher
distribution program that used oil to influence UN members to support
Iraq's goals. Saddam personally approved and removed all names of
voucher recipients. He made all modifi cations to the list, adding or
deleting names at will. Other senior Iraqi leaders could nominate or
recommend an individual or organization to be added or subtracted from
the voucher list,and ad hoc allocation committees met to review and
update the allocations.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, pp. 2-3]"
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 00:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 01:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
How damned STUPID are you???

http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq's WMD capability-which was
essentially destroyed in 1991-after sanctions were removed and Iraq's
economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to
that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear
capability-in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international
pressure and the resulting economic risks-but he intended to focus on
ballistic
missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
[Regime Strategic Intent, Key Findings, p. 1]

...One aspect of Saddam's strategy of unhinging the UN's sanctions
against Iraq, centered on Saddam's efforts to influence certain UN SC
permanent members, such as Russia, France, and China and some
nonpermanent (Syria, Ukraine) members to end UN sanctions. Under
Saddam's orders, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) formulated and
implemented a strategy aimed at these UNSC members and international
public opinion with the purpose of ending UN sanctions and undermining
its subsequent OFF program by diplomatic and economic means. At a
minimum, Saddam wanted to divide the fi ve permanent members and foment
international public support of Iraq at the UN and throughout the world
by a savvy public relations campaign and an extensive diplomatic effort.

Another element of this strategy involved circumventing UN
sanctions and the OFF program by means of "Protocols" or
government-to-government economic trade agreements. Protocols allowed
Saddam to generate a large amount of revenue outside the purview of the
UN. The successful implementation of the Protocols, continued oil
smuggling efforts, and the manipulation of UN OFF contracts emboldened
Saddam to pursue his military reconstitution efforts starting in 1997
and peaking in 2001. These efforts covered conventional arms, dual-use
goods acquisition, and some WMD-related programs.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, p. 1]

. . .The Ministry of Oil (MoO) controlled the oil voucher
distribution program that used oil to influence UN members to support
Iraq's goals. Saddam personally approved and removed all names of
voucher recipients. He made all modifi cations to the list, adding or
deleting names at will. Other senior Iraqi leaders could nominate or
recommend an individual or organization to be added or subtracted from
the voucher list,and ad hoc allocation committees met to review and
update the allocations.
[Regime Finance and Procurement, Key Findings, pp. 2-3]
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 03:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
How damned STUPID are you???
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
... which sias just what I claimed it does right at the top of the
page. If you want to produce a URL to the original material (the
material this character is claiming to base his opinion on), then
show us the URL for that - a URL to the full Duelfer report he talked
about, not some alleged "greatest hits" - wording which means your
URL is not to be taken seriously.

And as you should know, there were simply no weapons of mass destruction
found in Iraq, only some non-functional junk or a few old shells (maybe
not even loaded) that were basically useless and where probably
"lost inventory" - not surprising given how we bombed them during the
first gulf war, which is not conducive to accurate record keeping.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 03:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
How damned STUPID are you???
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
... which sias just what I
Oh stop huffing paint and go away, I have nothing further to day to you.
Bill Z.
2009-01-29 05:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
How damned STUPID are you???
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
... which sias just what I
Oh stop huffing paint and go away, I have nothing further to day to you.
... which is just what I claimed it does right at the top of the
page. If you want to produce a URL to the original material (the
material this character is claiming to base his opinion on), then
show us the URL for that - a URL to the full Duelfer report he talked
about, not some alleged "greatest hits" - wording which means your
URL is not to be taken seriously.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-29 05:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Spartacus
A 40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism
ROTLFMAO - random thoughts from a non-expert.
You utter lying FOOL!
I'm not lying, you moron - his own web site describes him as a
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager. In his exact words: "A
40-something NYC-based hedge fund manager's occasional thoughts on
politics, international affairs and journalism."
He then goes on to describe his page as
"Greatest hits from the Duelfer report on Iraq's WMD programs".
Yes he does, so?????
... so this is obviously some guy's random thoughts on some topics,
No, you lying ass, it is NOT!
No, you are lying - I quoted exactly what he said. If you think he
quoted something else, then produce a URL to the original material.
How damned STUPID are you???
http://spartacus.blogs.com/spartacus/2004/10/greatest_hits_f.html
... which sias just what I
Oh stop huffing paint and go away, I have nothing further to day to you.
... which is just what I claimed it does
Fool, you're shadow boxing your own lies.
Bill Shatzer
2009-01-23 01:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Well Chuckie, here's yer chance to put your money where your mouth is
and become very wealthy in the process.

ttp://linesmaker.com/live_odds/us_president_election_odds.htm

Ol' Jeb is running at twenty to one. Put down a couple thousand quid on
Jeb and, Bob's your uncle, you've got the price of a brand new BMW in
your pocket.

Betcha ain't gonna do it though. Rightwads tend to be free with
predictions but tight with their money.

Peace and justice,
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:29:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Shatzer
Post by SMITH29
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sam Parkhill
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House
near the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
Uh oh...another Bush....
Whatever this Rustybaker guy is babbling about, one thing we have
going for us is that the "Bush" brand is now severely damaged.
Jeb might have to change his last name. :-)
xxxx
No that's merely temporary....
By four years it will be evident that the KING did a good job as
President and Jeb will be looked on as a likely candidate.
Well Chuckie, here's yer chance to put your money where your mouth is
and become very wealthy in the process.
ttp://linesmaker.com/live_odds/us_president_election_odds.htm
Ol' Jeb is running at twenty to one. Put down a couple thousand quid on
Jeb and, Bob's your uncle, you've got the price of a brand new BMW in
your pocket.
Betcha ain't gonna do it though. Rightwads tend to be
Why are you persisting in playing divisive partisan politics, Shitzie?

Don't you care to honor the request of OUR new President that we put
aside such behavior?

Are you so self-centered you can't put AMERICA first!?!?
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 01:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House near the
end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
His running mate will be George Foreman who if elected will give every
household a fryer for only shipping and handling fee of $87.49.......
http://www.georgeforemancooking.com/products/Products.aspx?ProductId=45
We am be doin some cookin.
29
Now that's SPIN!

Too bad they don't take PayPal.
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by SMITH29
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
xxxx
A plan going now is to catch Obama dealing out of the White House near
the end of the term and get Jeb Bush elected.
His running mate will be George Foreman who if elected will give every
household a fryer for only shipping and handling fee of $87.49.......
http://www.georgeforemancooking.com/products/Products.aspx?ProductId=45
We am be doin some cookin.
29
Now that's SPIN!
Too bad they don't take PayPal.
Check Ebay.
Lobby Dosser
2009-01-23 01:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
By Russ Baker
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
\snip
Post by r***@theoven.net
Now, as a new president enters the White House promising reform, how
much will he be able to achieve if his reforms step on the same big
toes? We must begin to take seriously, and speak openly about, the
true nature of the forces behind the Bush family enterprise. If we do
not, we will find ourselves, several years from now, shaking our heads
at new disaster, still unable to comprehend what has happened -- and
why.
OK, but you don't address the most serious question: why was Sammy Sosa
traded to Chicago?

Answer That One Mr. Smartypants!
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 01:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lobby Dosser
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
By Russ Baker
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
\snip
Post by r***@theoven.net
Now, as a new president enters the White House promising reform, how
much will he be able to achieve if his reforms step on the same big
toes? We must begin to take seriously, and speak openly about, the
true nature of the forces behind the Bush family enterprise. If we do
not, we will find ourselves, several years from now, shaking our heads
at new disaster, still unable to comprehend what has happened -- and
why.
OK, but you don't address the most serious question: why was Sammy Sosa
traded to Chicago?
Answer That One Mr. Smartypants!
Oooooh... I smell a conspiracy!
lein
2009-01-23 05:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
By Russ Baker
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat. (psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
Sam Parkhill
2009-01-23 05:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by lein
Post by r***@theoven.net
Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His
Plans
By Russ Baker
Bush may be gone, but his influence -- and the forces that put him in
office -- aren't.
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat.
Ya know what, given the length of those briefings, and also his face
when he emerged, I bet he already has...
Post by lein
(psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
Heh.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 06:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by lein
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat. (psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/22/MNOQ15EGQC.DTL>

Guantanamo Bay: He is expected to sign an order today to close
the U.S. prison in Cuba within a year and halt trials of
prisoners there in the meantime.

Lobbying: He imposed new limits on lobbyists in the White
House and froze the salaries of about 100 aides who make over
$100,000.

Records: He ordered limits on the ability of former presidents
to block the release of sensitive records of their time in the
White House and said the federal government would reinterpret
the Freedom of Information Act to increase transparency.

On hold: He froze all proposed federal rule changes left
unfinished by George W. Bush's administration. They relate to
the Endangered Species Act, labor relations and other fields.

<http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200901230921.htm>:

United States will not torture: Obama

Washington (PTI): Hours after signing the executive orders
which included closing down of the infamous Guantanamo Bay
prison, US President Barack H Obama has said that the US "will
not torture" as it detains terror suspects.

"I can say without exception or equivocation that the United
States will not torture," Obama told State Department
officials hours after he signed three executive orders and one
memorandum that ordered closer of Guantanamo Bay detention
centre and CIA secret interrogation centres across the world.

It gave strict instructions that only measures mentioned in
the military manual can be applied for interrogation.

"We will immediately undertake a comprehensive review to
determine how to hold and try terrorism suspects to best
protect our nation and the rule of law," Obama said.
Sancho Panza
2009-01-23 21:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lein
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat. (psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/22/MNOQ15EGQC.DTL>
Guantanamo Bay: He is expected to sign an order today to close
the U.S. prison in Cuba within a year and halt trials of
prisoners there in the meantime.
Lobbying: He imposed new limits on lobbyists in the White
House and froze the salaries of about 100 aides who make over
$100,000.
Records: He ordered limits on the ability of former presidents
to block the release of sensitive records of their time in the
White House and said the federal government would reinterpret
the Freedom of Information Act to increase transparency.
On hold: He froze all proposed federal rule changes left
unfinished by George W. Bush's administration. They relate to
the Endangered Species Act, labor relations and other fields.
United States will not torture: Obama
Washington (PTI): Hours after signing the executive orders
which included closing down of the infamous Guantanamo Bay
prison, US President Barack H Obama has said that the US "will
not torture" as it detains terror suspects.
"I can say without exception or equivocation that the United
States will not torture," Obama told State Department
officials hours after he signed three executive orders and one
memorandum that ordered closer of Guantanamo Bay detention
centre and CIA secret interrogation centres across the world.
It gave strict instructions that only measures mentioned in
the military manual can be applied for interrogation.
"We will immediately undertake a comprehensive review to
determine how to hold and try terrorism suspects to best
protect our nation and the rule of law," Obama said.
Yup, that will stop it dead in its tracks. As if the U.S. had never tortured
anyone before Bush 43.
Bill Z.
2009-01-23 23:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sancho Panza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lein
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat. (psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/22/MNOQ15EGQC.DTL>
Guantanamo Bay: He is expected to sign an order today to close
the U.S. prison in Cuba within a year and halt trials of
prisoners there in the meantime.
Lobbying: He imposed new limits on lobbyists in the White
House and froze the salaries of about 100 aides who make over
$100,000.
Records: He ordered limits on the ability of former presidents
to block the release of sensitive records of their time in the
White House and said the federal government would reinterpret
the Freedom of Information Act to increase transparency.
On hold: He froze all proposed federal rule changes left
unfinished by George W. Bush's administration. They relate to
the Endangered Species Act, labor relations and other fields.
United States will not torture: Obama
Washington (PTI): Hours after signing the executive orders
which included closing down of the infamous Guantanamo Bay
prison, US President Barack H Obama has said that the US "will
not torture" as it detains terror suspects.
"I can say without exception or equivocation that the United
States will not torture," Obama told State Department
officials hours after he signed three executive orders and one
memorandum that ordered closer of Guantanamo Bay detention
centre and CIA secret interrogation centres across the world.
It gave strict instructions that only measures mentioned in
the military manual can be applied for interrogation.
"We will immediately undertake a comprehensive review to
determine how to hold and try terrorism suspects to best
protect our nation and the rule of law," Obama said.
Yup, that will stop it dead in its tracks. As if the U.S. had never tortured
anyone before Bush 43.
He's been in office only a few days. Wait to see how he actually does,
but at least he made his goals clear.
Sancho Panza
2009-01-24 22:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Z.
Post by Sancho Panza
Post by Bill Z.
Post by lein
Obama should thank Bush profusely for doing all the heavy lifting in
the war on terror and taking all the heat. (psst, liberals, Obama
voted for FISA, will keep us in Iraq/Afghanistan, and will continue to
support torture).
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/22/MNOQ15EGQC.DTL>
Guantanamo Bay: He is expected to sign an order today to close
the U.S. prison in Cuba within a year and halt trials of
prisoners there in the meantime.
Lobbying: He imposed new limits on lobbyists in the White
House and froze the salaries of about 100 aides who make over
$100,000.
Records: He ordered limits on the ability of former presidents
to block the release of sensitive records of their time in the
White House and said the federal government would reinterpret
the Freedom of Information Act to increase transparency.
On hold: He froze all proposed federal rule changes left
unfinished by George W. Bush's administration. They relate to
the Endangered Species Act, labor relations and other fields.
United States will not torture: Obama
Washington (PTI): Hours after signing the executive orders
which included closing down of the infamous Guantanamo Bay
prison, US President Barack H Obama has said that the US "will
not torture" as it detains terror suspects.
"I can say without exception or equivocation that the United
States will not torture," Obama told State Department
officials hours after he signed three executive orders and one
memorandum that ordered closer of Guantanamo Bay detention
centre and CIA secret interrogation centres across the world.
It gave strict instructions that only measures mentioned in
the military manual can be applied for interrogation.
"We will immediately undertake a comprehensive review to
determine how to hold and try terrorism suspects to best
protect our nation and the rule of law," Obama said.
Yup, that will stop it dead in its tracks. As if the U.S. had never tortured
anyone before Bush 43.
He's been in office only a few days. Wait to see how he actually does,
but at least he made his goals clear.
And we know we can count on you to be among the first to post it here if he
fails to reach that goal.
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